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How the Hawks Get Better

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mvr said on 7 hours ago:

This is likely true.

What's worse - the sticky Hossa LTIR contact situation.   The controversy is far from over, according to a recent report.   Rival team executives remain furious that the Hawks were able to avoid being penalized for cap circumvention.   The topic is again on the agenda at the next set of general manager meetings.

I strongly suspect Hossa has negative trade value as well.

 

I highly suspect that as much as the other GM's and Exec's gripe at the "Cap Circumventing" contracts nothing new will come out of it against the Hawks.  There was nothing within the rules that did not allow it at the time that those contracts were signed.  Sure there is always the "spirit" of the contract angle; however, since league basically said not more with these contracts and letting all of the other "cap circumventers" that are not long playing slide, I highly doubt anything will come about with the Hossa contact that will penalize the 'Hawks.  Too much precedence from the league and Hossa has a medical issue.

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midnite200 said on On 3/16/2018 at 2:43 PM:

Easy...start with getting rid of Stan and hiring a GM who is capable of putting together a team of real hockey players! Unfortunately due to the brutal job of drafting over the past several years it would mean a pretty much total blow up! 

I don't think their drafting has been all that bad over the last 3 -4 years, if we had of kept them 

 

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The hawks can get better just by putting a pylon in net..swiss cheese berube and forsberg both suck and are not nhl goalies! I was at the hawks game in buffalo last nite and berube stunk, then he gets the nod again tonite and tops last nites game with another stinker tonite! Wtf..find a goalie! What a chance to knock the blues back...damn i miss CC!!

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Chicago was in trouble by not having a reliable back-up in net to start the season.

Yet somehow Vegas soldiered on w/ Subban and then Dansk before Lagace had to step in (even Ferguson, briefly.) It's been hard to tell if Forsberg, Berube, or Glass would have done as well as Darling w/ last year's team or the one before. Darling has been terrible for Carolina and they were supposed to take a step forward this year.

At this point, Forsberg may as well get all the starts. Berube's done nothing to instill confidence anymore than Glass after a few good starts. NOBODY has since Crawford's concussion woes but Forsberg at least looks like a back-up worth a crap.

One thing's for certain...Chicago's D, which was once their stalwart, is now a shambles. That facet needs upgrading so bad it isn't remotely amusing. It's like a team of Forsberg's back there. Rundblad II's...hell, what's Cam Barker up to these days?

 

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Big-T said on On 3/18/2018 at 11:32 AM:

What I don’t understand is this. And I’m not picking on Highmore here cuz of his number. Dave Bolland was a MASSIVE scoring machine in jrs. It wasn’t transpiring to the pro game, so he became a pest and stayed in the league at all costs. Why can’t Highmore or some other kid use this time to just pisss off the competition? We have no agitators and or guys that draw penalties. Shaw did the same damn thing. Do we have all pre-Madonnas in our system? I just don’t get how some of these kids won’t try a defensive role or shut down role to remain in the league. William Karlsson did this with Columbus, now he’s got a shot and he’s killing it. Frolik came here as a supposed scorer. He was a Selke winner in my book. We need to establish role players outta all this. Can’t have this mishmash of a lineup every night!!!

Because they are trying to find a spot. How long did it take Shaw to finally play? A long time because he was getting sat a lot when first starting. He was taking penalties instead of drawing them, hitting instead of poke checking and he would then sit until he played like Q wanted. 

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WesIsaLeo said on On 19/03/2018 at 7:15 AM:

Chicago was in trouble by not having a reliable back-up in net to start the season.

Yet somehow Vegas soldiered on w/ Subban and then Dansk before Lagace had to step in (even Ferguson, briefly.) It's been hard to tell if Forsberg, Berube, or Glass would have done as well as Darling w/ last year's team or the one before. Darling has been terrible for Carolina and they were supposed to take a step forward this year.

At this point, Forsberg may as well get all the starts. Berube's done nothing to instill confidence anymore than Glass after a few good starts. NOBODY has since Crawford's concussion woes but Forsberg at least looks like a back-up worth a crap.

One thing's for certain...Chicago's D, which was once their stalwart, is now a shambles. That facet needs upgrading so bad it isn't remotely amusing. It's like a team of Forsberg's back there. Rundblad II's...hell, what's Cam Barker up to these days?

 

Yeah the Hawks should've got someone like Halak last summer and let the young goalies play in Rockford. Then after Crow got hurt they still would've had an experienced NHL goalie and not just an old guy like Glass with zero NHL games and a couple other guys with only a handful of games. What a mess.

And I agree Forsberg should get the rest of the starts, or most of them. Berube is almost 2yrs older and he'll be 27 in a couple months and hasn't even solidified himself as a backup yet, I don't see a future for him with the Hawks, plus he's small.

Delia looks very promising though, he's young with good size.

I can't believe how bad Stan has messed up the D, Johns was in the system and ready to make the jump so Stan adds him as a sweetener to get rid of Sharp, nows he's having a great year in Dallas, yeah why keep a 6'4" 230lbs right handed dman with agility, grit, and good hands 😐 so now we have Oesterle and Gus 👍

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OldTimeHawky said on 9 minutes ago:

Yeah the Hawks should've got someone like Halak last summer and let the young goalies play in Rockford. Then after Crow got hurt they still would've had an experienced NHL goalie and not just an old guy like Glass with zero NHL games and a couple other guys with only a handful of games. What a mess.

And I agree Forsberg should get the rest of the starts, or most of them. Berube is almost 2yrs older and he'll be 27 in a couple months and hasn't even solidified himself as a backup yet, I don't see a future for him with the Hawks, plus he's small.

Delia looks very promising though, he's young with good size.

I can't believe how bad Stan has messed up the D, Johns was in the system and ready to make the jump so Stan adds him as a sweetener to get rid of Sharp, nows he's having a great year in Dallas, yeah why keep a 6'4" 230lbs right handed dman with agility, grit, and good hands 😐 so now we have Oesterle and Gus 👍

Johns still would have gone the route of Leddy had he made the jump up. He is in a system that allows him to use agility, GRIT and good hands. Murphy is big and can hit same as Johns but Q is not allowing him to do that here. The motto is no longer One Goal.....it's Poke Check First !!! 

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Creature1958 said on 1 minute ago:

Johns still would have gone the route of Leddy had he made the jump up. He is in a system that allows him to use agility, GRIT and good hands. Murphy is big and can hit same as Johns but Q is not allowing him to do that here. The motto is no longer One Goal.....it's Poke Check First !!! 

True, one big hit that would've got him out of position and Q would've benched him. I noticed vs Buffalo Seabs could've rocked a guy along the boards but instead he stopped and threw a poke check. 

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OldTimeHawky said on 12 minutes ago:

True, one big hit that would've got him out of position and Q would've benched him. I noticed vs Buffalo Seabs could've rocked a guy along the boards but instead he stopped and threw a poke check. 

And that is why we don't have big physical players. I have prayed Q would change his system with all the turnover but it hasn't happened. There are some fast young forwards who would probably benefit from a D-man standing a player up at the blueline and separating them from the puck for a forward to collect there instead of having to come all the way back into the zone while they are poking their sticks trying to get the damn puck. And it would probably help Seabs game in the long run as his speed is that of Tudor Turtle today.

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iknowpuck said on On 3/17/2018 at 7:00 AM:

Let's be fair here...SB has been drafting during the most successful years of the organIzation.  Compare just his first pick each year...and what position they were drafted from...to others before him.  Last 30 years (finishing with my guy JR).  I italicized and bolded top 10 picks.

SB: 

2017 - 29th - Jokiharju

2016 - 39th - D-cat

2015 - 54th - Knott

2014 - 20th - Schmaltz

2013 - 30th - Hartman

2012 - 18th - Teravainen

2011 - 18th - McNeil

2010 - 24th - Hayes

Except for McNeil, I think there are some "pretty good hockey players" on that list.

Before SB: 

2009 - 28th - Olsen

2008 - 11th - Beach

2007 - 1st - Kane

2006 - 3rd - Toews

2005 - 7th - Skille

2004 - 3rd - Barker

2003 - 14th - Seabrook

2002 - 21st - Babchuk

2001 - 9th - Ruutu

2000 - 10th - Yakubov

1999 - 23rd - McCarthy

1998 - 8th - Bell

1997 - 13th - Cleary

1996 - 31st - Royer

1995 - 19th - Nabokov

1994 - 14th - Moreau

1993 - 24th - Lecompte

1992 - 12th - Krivokrasov

1991 - 22nd - McAmmond

1990 - 16th - Dykhuis

1989 - 6th - Bennett

1988 - 8th - Roenick

Neither list looks "great" but in comparison SB hasn't drafted all that poorly with his first pick in each draft...especially considering their positions.

Out of the 9 top 10 picks between 1988 - 2009, I would say 3 hit...and those were Kaner 1st overall, JT 3rd overall and JR 8th overall.

Unfortunately...but fortunately...SB will be in a position in the top 10 this year...result of a failed season.  He hasn't drafted from there before...a cost of success.

 

Don't like quoting my own post...but, the SB bashers here didn't have anything to reply about this.

Is SB doing that bad at drafting...all considered? 

I was in a discussion/debate about this today.  How can he be bashed as he has been over this?

Look for yourself.

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iknowpuck said on 8 minutes ago:

Don't like quoting my own post...but, the SB bashers here didn't have anything to reply about this.

Is SB doing that bad at drafting...all considered? 

I was in a discussion/debate about this today.  How can he be bashed as he has been over this?

Look for yourself.

You forgot Brandon Saad 43 pick 2011

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nighbor said on 2 minutes ago:

You forgot Brandon Saad 43 pick 2011

I only included the first pick taken (and position of the pick ) in each of those drafts.  Unfortunately, in that draft, McNeil was taken first as the 18th pick.

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iknowpuck said on 41 minutes ago:

Don't like quoting my own post...but, the SB bashers here didn't have anything to reply about this.

Is SB doing that bad at drafting...all considered? 

I was in a discussion/debate about this today.  How can he be bashed as he has been over this?

Look for yourself.

My position on Stan is unmoved by your list, thus I didn't feel a need to comment.

Hayes is a good player, but never signed. Stan doesn't get credit for drafting him but failing to sign him. It's a lost first-round pick.

McNeil= bust

Teravainen= stupidly traded before he had his first good season this season, all so a team would take 1 year of a bad contract

Hartman= Bust before being dealt

Schmaltz= looking good

Knott= 9 points in 62 games this season isn't very inspiring

DeBrincat= great rookie year, too early to say this is a huge success

Jokiharju= obviously WAY too early to call this a win but let's hope it is

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iknowpuck said on 49 minutes ago:

Don't like quoting my own post...but, the SB bashers here didn't have anything to reply about this.

Is SB doing that bad at drafting...all considered? 

I was in a discussion/debate about this today.  How can he be bashed as he has been over this?

Look for yourself.

1) The draft consists of more than one round.

2) Bowman's draft team has been provided with many picks because of players traded away.  The overall record is spotty.

3)  Not one NHL calibre defenceman picked this decade.

4) No goalies.

5) No power forwards with the exception of Hayden.

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MERPER said on 3 minutes ago:

My position on Stan is unmoved by your list, thus I didn't feel a need to comment.

Hayes is a good player, but never signed. Stan doesn't get credit for drafting him but failing to sign him. It's a lost first-round pick.

McNeil= bust

Teravainen= stupidly traded before he had his first good season this season, all so a team would take 1 year of a bad contract

Hartman= Bust before being dealt

Schmaltz= looking good

Knott= 9 points in 62 games this season isn't very inspiring

DeBrincat= great rookie year, too early to say this is a huge success

Jokiharju= obviously WAY too early to call this a win but let's hope it is

Fair...and the picks before 2011?  Ouch, no?

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iknowpuck said on 30 minutes ago:

I only included the first pick taken (and position of the pick ) in each of those drafts.  Unfortunately, in that draft, McNeil was taken first as the 18th pick.

I realized that but I just wanted to give Saad some positive print time.

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mvr said on 2 minutes ago:

1) The draft consists of more than one round.

2) Bowman's draft team has been provided with many picks because of players traded away.  The overall record is spotty.

3)  Not one NHL calibre defenceman picked this decade.

4) No goalies.

5) No power forwards with the exception of Hayden.

mvr:

Look at the first pick's draft position in each of SB's drafts.  They weren't good due to the success of the team.

How does it look with the first pick in each of the drafts before him...over the last 30 years?  The best picks were Kane 1st overall, JT 3rd overall and JR 8th overall.  When has SB drafted his first pick from that position...except for this upcoming draft?

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nighbor said on 3 minutes ago:

I realized that but I just wanted to give Saad some positive print time.

He needs that...something.

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iknowpuck said on 5 minutes ago:

Fair...and the picks before 2011?  Ouch, no?

I mean yeah there were some bad ones... you also had 2 NHL HOFers in Kane/Toews and another guy who will have his number retired in Seabrook from 2003-07.

And lets not act like Kane or Toews were obvious picks. Kane was one of 4 guys people had as possible No. 1 picks with JVR/Turris/Gagner... any of the other 3 and we don't have a single Cup.

Kessel/Brassard/Mueller were all as hyped as Toews in 2006... Kessel woulda likely been fine but not the other 2

Barker was a lock future HOFer according to everyone back then.

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MERPER said on 8 minutes ago:

I mean yeah there were some bad ones... you also had 2 NHL HOFers in Kane/Toews and another guy who will have his number retired in Seabrook from 2003-07.

And lets not act like Kane or Toews were obvious picks. Kane was one of 4 guys people had as possible No. 1 picks with JVR/Turris/Gagner... any of the other 3 and we don't have a single Cup.

Kessel/Brassard/Mueller were all as hyped as Toews in 2006... Kessel woulda likely been fine but not the other 2

Barker was a lock future HOFer according to everyone back then.

Lots of bad ones by the praised GMs before SB (from some posters on this board).  Point being: you don't hit on every pick...even first picks that you have in the draft when you are drafting from poor positions.

Kane and JT were 1st and 3rd overall picks.  SB has been drafting from 29, 39, 54, 20, 30, 18, 18 and 24.  You don't find a Kane and a JT in those positions.

Lots of bad top 10 picks before SB as well.  3 of the 9 hit...and Beach at 11 was a bust too.  Could you imagine if this was SB's drafting resume?  

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iknowpuck said on 14 minutes ago:

Lots of bad ones by the praised GMs before SB (from some posters on this board).  Point being: you don't hit on every pick...even first picks that you have in the draft when you are drafting from poor positions.

Kane and JT were 1st and 3rd overall picks.  SB has been drafting from 29, 39, 54, 20, 30, 18, 18 and 24.  You don't find a Kane and a JT in those positions.

Lots of bad top 10 picks before SB as well.  3 of the 9 hit...and Beach at 11 was a bust too.  Could you imagine if this was SB's drafting resume?  

I think the difference is we are looking at contributors to success... and not just in the first round...

In the years pre-Bowman are where a vast majority of Cup contributors, including keith and Crawford... Hjalmarsson... Byfuglien... heck, even Ruutu being dealt for Ladd... etc. etc. were drafted.

Other than Saad and Shaw, there simply isn't that many draft picks SB has had that contributed to Cups... not necessarily as stars or HOFers but just keeping the system stocked and churning towards Cup runs.

SB had the groundwork laid for him in the core players. He has failed to draft/trade well enough to compliment them and keep the machine operating smoothly.

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MERPER said on 1 minute ago:

I think the difference is we are looking at contributors to success... and not just in the first round...

In the years pre-Bowman are where a vast majority of Cup contributors, including keith and Crawford... Hjalmarsson... Byfuglien... heck, even Ruutu being dealt for Ladd... etc. etc. were drafted.

Other than Saad and Shaw, there simply isn't that many draft picks SB has had that contributed to Cups... not necessarily as stars or HOFers but just keeping the system stocked and churning towards Cup runs.

SB had the groundwork laid for him in the core players. He has failed to draft/trade well enough to compliment them and keep the machine operating smoothly.

I was just referencing first picks in each draft...which should be your "best" pick in each draft...more times than not.

I get picks in the later rounds are considered "good finds" but they are also mostly a gamble...luck.

My comparison was solely on the first pick in each draft over the last 30 years.  Start from 2009 and go back...WOW!

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iknowpuck said on 27 minutes ago:

I was just referencing first picks in each draft...which should be your "best" pick in each draft...more times than not.

I get picks in the later rounds are considered "good finds" but they are also mostly a gamble...luck.

My comparison was solely on the first pick in each draft over the last 30 years.  Start from 2009 and go back...WOW!

oh, I totally get and understand what you did with the first round only and that's fine... but obviously not looking at all at the rest of the drafts is silly

My criticism of Stan's drafting isn't about the first round it's about quality players on the roster or in the system that can compliment the core and my personal belief that he hasn't added enough quality/depth to this franchise

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MERPER said on 1 minute ago:

oh, I totally get and understand what you did with the first round only and that's fine... but obviously not looking at all at the rest of the drafts is silly

My criticism of Stan's drafting isn't about the first round it's about quality players on the roster or in the system that can compliment the core and my personal belief that he hasn't added enough quality/depth to this franchise

Yes, not a full picture of each draft...but when you start at the bad positions that he has...those positions only get worse after that pick!

 

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Mike Smith was general manager for four drafts.

In that short time, Smith drafted five quality NHL defencemen - Seabrook, Keith, Byfuglien, Babchuk, Wisniewski, two legitimate forwards, - Ruutu and Burish, and two starting goalies - Crawford and Anderson.   

At least eight other players, Vorobiev, Ellison, Yakubov, Nordquist, Munro, Radulov, Barinka and Kukkonen  eiither saw NHL action or drew enough interest from other teams to be traded away for other assets (Ellison produced Sharp).

The highest picks here were Yakubov, Vorobiev and Ruttu - none of them in the top eight.   Many who made it were late round steals (ie Byfuglien in the eighth round, Wisniewski in the fourth). 

Bowman's drafting track record is not even close. He has drafted 80 plus players by this point.   Even if he'd scored at a higher success rate, the big problem would still exist.   The system has too many of the same type of players  - small "puck moving" defencemen / small perimeter forwards.   Teams only need one or two of these kinds of players.    No other team is interested in acquiring Bowman's players.

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