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12/06 Hawks vs Caps

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jacksalmon said on 27 minutes ago:

To all depressed fans:  Here come the Sabres and Yotes.  2 wins just ahead.  Get ready to party!!!

No game is ever guaranteed. This isn't the NBA.

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Granada said on 28 minutes ago:

No game is ever guaranteed. This isn't the NBA.

True, but no matter how bad the Hawks have been, do you really think they have fallen far enough that they are not going to win those two games, and maybe even the Florida game after that, before resuming their losing way at Winnipeg?  I am one of their biggest critics, but if I were in Vegas, I would put money on them against the Sabres.  If they lose that game, if I were the GM, I would immediately blow up the team. 

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I don't bet. Also, I wouldn't blow up the team based on one game. Based on the way they've been playing, and if Crawford is out, it's beyond reasonable to assume that they can lose at least one of these next games.

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Granada said on 3 minutes ago:

I don't bet. Also, I wouldn't blow up the team based on one game. Based on the way they've been playing, and if Crawford is out, it's beyond reasonable to assume that they can lose at least one of these next games.

Okay, I was just trying to be optimistic, for once.  I know you are right, but I still can't see them losing to the Sabres and Yotes at home.  That is, if they have any desire left to play the game.  Losing either one of those games would indicate to me that they have lost their desire and fire for the game.  Either that, or this team is far worse than is thought of at this point. 

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jacksalmon said on 39 minutes ago:

Okay, I was just trying to be optimistic, for once.  I know you are right, but I still can't see them losing to the Sabres and Yotes at home.  That is, if they have any desire left to play the game.  Losing either one of those games would indicate to me that they have lost their desire and fire for the game.  Either that, or this team is far worse than is thought of at this point. 

I’ve been watching a team...led by it’s core...look like they have no desire to compete in way too many games now.  Yesterday was the icing on that cake for me. 

 I wonder if they just don’t believe they have what it takes.  Their performance against those two teams, good or bad, won’t change what I’ve seen (or believe) for the majority of the season.  

Blame SB.  Blame Q.  Fine...this is a organization failure right now.

I blame the players.  Compete.  Execute. Produce.  Heck...we don’t even look better on the ice on the PP...our 5 look worse than the opponents 4.

Pffftt.  Be a pro.

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jacksalmon said on 2 hours ago:

To all depressed fans:  Here come the Sabres and Yotes.  2 wins just ahead.  Get ready to party!!!

Don't count your weasels before they pop.  2010 the 'hawks got jobbed by the league-basement Isles.

Granada said on 1 hour ago:

No game is ever guaranteed. This isn't the NBA.

You win for this comment. :D

jacksalmon said on 1 hour ago:

True, but no matter how bad the Hawks have been, do you really think they have fallen far enough that they are not going to win those two games, and maybe even the Florida game after that, before resuming their losing way at Winnipeg?  I am one of their biggest critics, but if I were in Vegas, I would put money on them against the Sabres.  If they lose that game, if I were the GM, I would immediately blow up the team. 

Nothing is guaranteed.  For all we know the core tries to play down to the Sabres, but considering how far the core is down right now, playing down to the sabres for them would mean having a difficult time against the Indy Fuel.

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iknowpuck said on 2 hours ago:

I’ve been watching a team...led by it’s core...look like they have no desire to compete in way too many games now.  Yesterday was the icing on that cake for me. 

 I wonder if they just don’t believe they have what it takes.  Their performance against those two teams, good or bad, won’t change what I’ve seen (or believe) for the majority of the season.  

Blame SB.  Blame Q.  Fine...this is a organization failure right now.

I blame the players.  Compete.  Execute. Produce.  Heck...we don’t even look better on the ice on the PP...our 5 look worse than the opponents 4.

Pffftt.  Be a pro.

That PP failure is really something.  I would say it is a lesson in...................., but I can't figure out how to finish that sentence.  With all those guys whose careers have been successful to this point on the PP, why it is so terrible (29th in the league, unless last night pushed them to 30th) is beyond me.  That may be a real indicator of player failure, as you say.  Even if Dineen or Q can't come up with a sure fire PP plan, the players should be able to do it themselves, if they are deserving of all the accolades that have been heaped upon them to date. 

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LordKOTL said on 2 hours ago:

Don't count your weasels before they pop.  2010 the 'hawks got jobbed by the league-basement Isles.

You win for this comment. :D

Nothing is guaranteed.  For all we know the core tries to play down to the Sabres, but considering how far the core is down right now, playing down to the sabres for them would mean having a difficult time against the Indy Fuel.

I know there are no guarantees.  But, as much as I believe that this Hawk team is pretty damn mediocre, I just can't see them losing to the Sabres or the Yotes, the two worst teams in the league.  In one way, though, it might be beneficial if they lost to both of them.  At least, there would be a realization that this team ain't going nowhere and the rebuild, to the extent it is possible, would begin. 

Though, I tend to agree with a comment you made earlier in another thread, which was that they can't even start a serious rebuild until the current bloated contracts expire. 

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jacksalmon said on 5 minutes ago:

I know there are no guarantees.  But, as much as I believe that this Hawk team is pretty damn mediocre, I just can't see them losing to the Sabres or the Yotes, the two worst teams in the league.  In one way, though, it might be beneficial if they lost to both of them.  At least, there would be a realization that this team ain't going nowhere and the rebuild, to the extent it is possible, would begin. 

Though, I tend to agree with a comment you made earlier in another thread, which was that they can't even start a serious rebuild until the current bloated contracts expire. 

The Sabres and the Yotes are probably saying the same thing. O boy we're playing the Hawks, we can easily beat these guys.

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Jack:

With a lot of pairity in this league...I believe...anyone can beat anyone on a given night.  Beating someone in a 7 game series is a different story.

However, your fixation on what some of our players make and how that directly should equate to must wins is a very interesting pattern of posting.

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iknowpuck said on 52 minutes ago:

Jack:

With a lot of pairity in this league...I believe...anyone can beat anyone on a given night.  Beating someone in a 7 game series is a different story.

However, your fixation on what some of our players make and how that directly should equate to must wins is a very interesting pattern of posting.

In a theoretical sense he's right in cap money vs. responsibility.  Toews, Kane, Seabrook, Saad, Crawford, & Keith all *should* be the ones leading the charge night in/night out.  They were paid because they've done so in the past and the expectation was there for them to continue to do it in the near, and in the case of Toews + Kane, (and Keith when he signed his deal) far future.

If, say, Seabs was considered 100% done and washed up when he signed his 6.875 deal by GMs everywhere, then logic dictates that no one would have signed him for the term or amount because of that; other GM's would have recognized an albatross when they saw it and the market rates would have driven his value down.  Thus, if Stan wanted a "thank you for your service" deal, he should have loaded it with Time or Money, but not both; either a 4M for the duration, or maybe 6.875 for half the duration.  I think the NMC was coming whether we liked it or not to somewhat control the money--ditto on Toews, Kane, Hoss, Keith, & Crawford.

So there has to be a concern about Cap$ vs. output no matter what the player. It Toews' out put is, hypothetically, closer to a $6.3M player, that's $4.2M the team could have put towards someone who could guarantee the gaps in Toews game be filled:  i.e. If Toews made his old contract we could have fit in Henrique, Bjugstad, Bozak, Rask, Johannson, Wilson, Rakell, Eakin, or Helm in as a #2/#3C.  Ditto for every other core player underperforming.

However, I'm not so obtuse to think it's that cut/dried.  There are no guarentees.  If we have to take whatever small victory so be it. :)

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iknowpuck said on 1 hour ago:

Jack:

With a lot of pairity in this league...I believe...anyone can beat anyone on a given night.  Beating someone in a 7 game series is a different story.

However, your fixation on what some of our players make and how that directly should equate to must wins is a very interesting pattern of posting.

Of course any team can beat another team on any given night and a 7 game series is a different animal.  However, one has to consider a roster and the team's current situation in evaluating the likely outcome of a particular game.  At least that is the way I did it when I semi-successfully gambled on sports to help finance living expenses. 

Next, I am not fixated on what the players make.  I am fixated on the idea that neither the Sabres, nor Yotes have any group of offensive players that are the equivalent of Toews, Kane, Saad, Anisimov and DeBrincat.  While I believe the first two of that group have declined in quality, the latter three are not that bad and all of them still have something left to give.  The Hawks are in desperation mode and are coming home for two easy, very winnable games. Therefore, I would expect that these players, while declining in quality, still have more quality than any the Sabres or Yotes can offer up.  Therefore, I pick the Hawks to win them both, regardless of parity and the Buster Douglas effect (which was great, wasn't it----I have seen the replay over 30 times----I still love to see Iron Mike trying to pick up his mouthpiece with his boxing glove). 

Should the Hawks surprise me and lose to either of these teams, then my belief that they still have "x" level of quality left in them must be reexamined.  I would then conclude that they have "y" level of quality and give them a serious downgrade.  That's my call and I'm sticking to it. 

Please note well----I am not fixated on what they make.  I just think that the above-mentioned players, while they make a lot, still have something left in them----at least enough to beat the Sabres and Yotes.  I am fixated on my perception of their quality and how it stacks up against the worst two teams in the league.  It does not matter how much they make----they are Toews, Kane, Saad, Anisimov and DeBrincat, for Christ's sake. 

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This game really upset me, or however you want to say it, when we played the TB lightening, we looked decent, played hard, as a team, this game just looked pitiful, Most players seemed to only be partially involved, I still think we have a better team ,than what played this last game (this game ). I know you have spurts of up and down games, Maybe that's it, but somethings amiss, and hopefully it gets going

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jacksalmon said on 17 hours ago:

Okay, I was just trying to be optimistic, for once.  I know you are right, but I still can't see them losing to the Sabres and Yotes at home.  That is, if they have any desire left to play the game.  Losing either one of those games would indicate to me that they have lost their desire and fire for the game.  Either that, or this team is far worse than is thought of at this point. 

To add to that optimism, the Panthers are after the 'Yotes!

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