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Creature1958

Where is the leadership ?

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vadarx said on 3 minutes ago:

in summary, I see 19 and Q being leaders and them doing the same thing they've always done. doing what worked before. I see 2 and 7 as leaders as well and they look very disinterested. 

I see 19 and Q trying to lead but are unable because other leaders on the team are not interested in doing their job. which makes their ability to lead difficult, as now the young guys can see older guys they look up to not listening to them, so why should they?

You starting to see where the problem lies? I do not see 19 trying to keep the bench upbeat. And I do not see Q correcting bad play. So if these are our leaders and they show little of leadership is their a problem between them? Between other players? A plan to bond together to get rid of Stan? I don't care how bad a team is most show something during a game on the bench. This blank bench was very evident in last years playoffs. Leaders don't quit they look for solutions and watching them play they are not looking for solutions.

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Creature1958 said on 26 minutes ago:

Did you even read what I typed to start this thread or did you just feel the need to ramble on? Clearly stated I SEE NOTHING read then comprehend OK.

 

If you see crap happening on the bench as you say and want to go that route then there is nobody correcting that and that means there is no leader.

I can read....can you? You're interjecting a lot into everyone's replies that isn't there. I never said I saw anything on the bench. I said no one on this board sits on the bench, including you. FACT. 

I never once mentioned trading anyone or salary, and you told me to stop doing so...where did you come up with that?

I'd suggest you get some new glasses or something and start reading the actual words that are on the screen, because your responses  indicate you are unwilling or incapable of doing so at this point.

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Creature1958 said on 16 minutes ago:

You starting to see where the problem lies? I do not see 19 trying to keep the bench upbeat. And I do not see Q correcting bad play. So if these are our leaders and they show little of leadership is their a problem between them? Between other players? A plan to bond together to get rid of Stan? I don't care how bad a team is most show something during a game on the bench. This blank bench was very evident in last years playoffs. Leaders don't quit they look for solutions and watching them play they are not looking for solutions.

I am kinda thinking there is a rift within the lockerroom, whether it be between players and coach, players and gm, or between the players themselves. tbh, I kinda think it might be a combination of those. 

it would certainly explain the lack of emotions on the bench. I would say it is pretty clear something needs to change soon. I don't think it is going to get better on its own. 

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Creature1958 said on 29 minutes ago:

Did you even read what I typed to start this thread or did you just feel the need to ramble on? Clearly stated I SEE NOTHING read then comprehend OK.

 

If you see crap happening on the bench as you say and want to go that route then there is nobody correcting that and that means there is no leader.

 

oldman.jpg

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blkhwks918 said on 38 minutes ago:

I can read....can you? You're interjecting a lot into everyone's replies that isn't there. I never said I saw anything on the bench. I said no one on this board sits on the bench, including you. FACT. 

I never once mentioned trading anyone or salary, and you told me to stop doing so...where did you come up with that?

I'd suggest you get some new glasses or something and start reading the actual words that are on the screen, because your responses  indicate you are unwilling or incapable of doing so at this point.

Blah,blah.blah..... The bench the bench what the hell does me sitting on their bench have to do with what is visible. I don't need to sit on the bench to see there is no emotion or communication and it's a continuation from last year. I asked who do you see that is leading the team not who is giving effort because we can just give grades for effort. Who gives the grades from within the team for effort and why do they settle for less than average grades? You have avoided answering a simple question why?

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Creature1958 said on 17 hours ago:

Blah,blah.blah..... The bench the bench what the hell does me sitting on their bench have to do with what is visible. I don't need to sit on the bench to see there is no emotion or communication and it's a continuation from last year. I asked who do you see that is leading the team not who is giving effort because we can just give grades for effort. Who gives the grades from within the team for effort and why do they settle for less than average grades? You have avoided answering a simple question wh

Edited by blkhwks918
Use of profanity, personal attack on another poster.
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I don't think the premise of this thread is fair.

The team has exceptional world class leaders.   Everyone is trying.

The problem is not a lack of leadership.   The team is a disorganized mess.   There are too many new players trying to figure out what to do.  There are many young kids playing roles they are not ready to take on.  

The veterans are stretched too thin, and they are trying to do too much.   At the same time, most of them are trying to adjust to the reality of their declining skills.   They can no longer do what they think they can which leads them to take bad risks.

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Apologies to everyone reading for losing my cool.

Edited by blkhwks918
I'd maybe like to stay around awhile.

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blkhwks918 said on 1 minute ago:

What bar you want to meet at in Crestwood, pops? I'd love to see you gibber this bullshit to my face. Sick up to my neck with the prick attitude from some people on these boards. You know why no one comes here anymore? It's assholes like you. 

 You can go to any bar here they know who I am. You can go to Alsip,Midlo,Oak Forest etc... but let's put this back on topic and I will make it as easy as I can for you.

 

WHO DO YOU THINK IS THE LEADER ON THIS TEAM ?

 

WHY ?

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vadarx said on 57 minutes ago:

I am kinda thinking there is a rift within the lockerroom, whether it be between players and coach, players and gm, or between the players themselves. tbh, I kinda think it might be a combination of those. 

it would certainly explain the lack of emotions on the bench. I would say it is pretty clear something needs to change soon. I don't think it is going to get better on its own. 

If the veteran players are not demonstrating "emotions on the bench,"  I believe this is a good sign of strong leadership.

The core players must at this stage be extremely frustrated.   If they are maintaining composure, this is a good thing.

 

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mvr said on 3 minutes ago:

I don't think the premise of this thread is fair.

The team has exceptional world class leaders.   Everyone is trying.

The problem is not a lack of leadership.   The team is a disorganized mess.   There are too many new players trying to figure out what to do.  There are many young kids playing roles they are not ready to take on.  

The veterans are stretched too thin, and they are trying to do too much.   At the same time, most of them are trying to adjust to the reality of their declining skills.   They can no longer do what they think they can which leads them to take bad risks.

That comes from no leadership. It's like the 1st grade teacher leaving the classroom unattended. Be it the GM,Coach or players it needs to be fixed.

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The problem comes from management turning over the two thirds of the roster in one season, and then doing the exact same thing the next year.

If there is a "leadership problem," the finger should be pointed at the top with Bowman and his poor decision making.   

The players are coping as best they can.

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mvr said on 2 minutes ago:

If the veteran players are not demonstrating "emotions on the bench,"  I believe this is a good sign of strong leadership.

The core players must at this stage be extremely frustrated.   If they are maintaining composure, this is a good thing.

 

Toews when first named Captain always showed emotion to charge the bench. In a good way. Then it started to be by frustration. Now it is gone. Tell me you haven't seen that I'm not saying anything about his play whether good or bad it's his attitude and tone as he is not what he was. That to me says something is really wrong.

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Of course he is frustrated and bitterly angry.  

Would throwing a temper tantrum help the situation right now, or would it cause more damage to the fragile confidence of the young kids?   I believe by maintaining a stoic exterior (especially in public), he is leading the team exactly how he should be right now.   He is not showing any signs of panic.

We have no idea what is going on in the dressing room.

 

Edited by mvr
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mvr said on Just now:

The problem comes from management turning over the two thirds of the roster in one season, and then doing the exact same thing the next year.

If there is a "leadership problem," the finger should be pointed at the top with Bowman and his poor decision making.   

The players are coping as best they can.

Stan can share the blame but what were these players thinking when they inked those massive deals? The Cap fairies were going to sprinkle fairy dust and raise the cap? Q can share it also because he was sitting players because they made a mistake to prove his point and put players there who shouldn't be. Those players were getting upset and wanted out and I don't blame them.

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mvr said on 4 minutes ago:

Of course he is frustrated and bitterly angry.  

Would throwing a temper tantrum help the situation right now, or would it cause more damage to the fragile confidence of the young kids?   I believe by maintaining a stoic exterior (especially in public), he is leading the team exactly how he should be right now.   He is not showing any signs of panic.

We have no idea what is going on in the dressing room.

 

Then he needs to tell Q to leave the lines alone for awhile so they can gel. Or maybe he did and Q won't have any of that. I see a problem with the leadership especially with Toews and it has nothing to do with his play he brings the effort every game. It's the change of attitude on the bench. I never seen him put players down so that is not what I'm talking about. He would be a positive motivation have that let's go boys we can come back from this. It's just not there and I wish I could see it again.

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Creature1958 said on 10 minutes ago:

Stan can share the blame but what were these players thinking when they inked those massive deals? The Cap fairies were going to sprinkle fairy dust and raise the cap? Q can share it also because he was sitting players because they made a mistake to prove his point and put players there who shouldn't be. Those players were getting upset and wanted out and I don't blame them.

The players were thinking they were giving the Hawks a break to gain cap space.   Their agent told them he would be able to get them $!2-13 M/year in Unrestricted Free Agency, and there is no doubt he would. 

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Creature1958 said on 1 minute ago:

Then he needs to tell Q to leave the lines alone for awhile so they can gel. Or maybe he did and Q won't have any of that. I see a problem with the leadership especially with Toews and it has nothing to do with his play he brings the effort every game. It's the change of attitude on the bench. I never seen him put players down so that is not what I'm talking about. He would be a positive motivation have that let's go boys we can come back from this. It's just not there and I wish I could see it again.

He has to change his approach with the young kids. They would look at him in a much different way than his peers would have a decade ago.

I strongly agree with you that Quenneville needs to stop tinkering.

Bowman needs to send the eighth defenceman to Rockford.

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mvr said on 2 minutes ago:

He has to change his approach with the young kids. They would look at him in a much different way than his peers would have a decade ago.

I strongly agree with you that Quenneville needs to stop tinkering.

Bowman needs to send the eighth defenceman to Rockford.

I'm sure Bowman would but I think there is a bit more behind the scenes as to what Q wants. Do you think Q keeping 8 D men might irritate JT a bit? Honestly I cannot put my finger on it. I believe they have the players to make a deep run if they get cohesive but I haven't seen too much attitude to get to that.

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Let's see where things stand in March after the new players make some adjustments and gain some confidence.

I see some real problems on defence, and Quenneville needs to stabilize that situation.   Murphy needs to play every day because the team has committed to him moving forward.   One of Franson or Kempny has to take the sixth job permanently.   There is no need for an eighth guy.   His presence is hurting more than helping.   

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I've always believed that those who can get others to buy in and follow either tend to be born with, or develop early the personality traits that predispose them to take on such roles as leadership. Training and experience complete the picture for these people.

If you were to watch the Hawks through the years, I would have to say guys like Kane with his extroverted personality and quick quips and upbeat chatter can become leaders on the ice. They keep you loose. Someone like Toews however was probably granted the title of leader due to his more serious demeanor. Opportunities might have been presented to him because of these personality traits. he would have been seen as more mature and reasoned, maybe more even headed, while a more emotional persona may have been seen as immature and too flighty. This type brings focus. Both of these types can mesh in a leadership cadre and result in a balanced approach. This is the type of leadership I believe the Hawks have. Multiple personalities blending into a workable system that has checks and balances so the room doesn't flex too far in either direction.

Now if you're not really used to losing, the stress on your leadership cadre might expose some weaknesses and impotence. If true, how they handle this should manifest itself in the next few games. It's also possible that if those currently in leadership seem weak or lacking, a new faction may emerge in the room causing a fraction. An experienced coach will know when to interfere.

 

 

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tincup61 said on 29 minutes ago:

I've always believed that those who can get others to buy in and follow either tend to be born with, or develop early the personality traits that predispose them to take on such roles as leadership. Training and experience complete the picture for these people.

If you were to watch the Hawks through the years, I would have to say guys like Kane with his extroverted personality and quick quips and upbeat chatter can become leaders on the ice. They keep you loose. Someone like Toews however was probably granted the title of leader due to his more serious demeanor. Opportunities might have been presented to him because of these personality traits. he would have been seen as more mature and reasoned, maybe more even headed, while a more emotional persona may have been seen as immature and too flighty. This type brings focus. Both of these types can mesh in a leadership cadre and result in a balanced approach. This is the type of leadership I believe the Hawks have. Multiple personalities blending into a workable system that has checks and balances so the room doesn't flex too far in either direction.

Now if you're not really used to losing, the stress on your leadership cadre might expose some weaknesses and impotence. If true, how they handle this should manifest itself in the next few games. It's also possible that if those currently in leadership seem weak or lacking, a new faction may emerge in the room causing a fraction. An experienced coach will know when to interfere.

 

 

thank you for saying that better than I could. 

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