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11/15 Hawks vs Rangers

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Here are two fairly simple suggestions for the Hawks:

1- When you are on the PP, always out number the opposition around loose pucks, until you have acquired safe possession of the puck.  (Watch Hawk players on the PP fore-check around loose pucks.......sometimes the Hawks are out numbered........that should not be happening.......we have the "extra man," not the opponent.)

2- Always out number the opposition around loose pucks in your D-zone.  In addition, always have someone defending the front of the net if the puck is not securely in your team's possession.

I coached hockey for over 30 years before retiring from the competitive version, and continued to work as an instructor in many summer hockey camps (until 2010) with players ranging from Pee Wees to NHL level.  The players at all levels understood how to do these things, so it seems that the Hawks should probably be able to follow through on them too (some were in camps in which I worked).  It might not solve all of their problems on the PP and D-zone play, but it should help to make those areas more workable for the Hawks. 

I'm sure that Coach Q knows these strategies, now it's up to him and the other coaches to get the players to perform together to accomplish them.

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As much as I have criticized this team, especially Toews and Kane, both of whom are still playing like $1.5 million guys, not $10.5 million guys, I have seen a definite uptick in the team's style of play.  They have not been dominated in puck possession and effort for quite a few games now.  These net front goals are a new development and encouraging.  Whether last night's game was one of those aberrations that happens every season, or a real turnaround, for me, will be determined by how they perform in the next 3 games.  I fully expect them to lose at Pittsburgh and Tampa and give them 50/50 in Pantherland.  Should they surprise to the upside, I would be seriously encouraged by those results. 

Is this a team that sucks; or a team that just needs more time to figure itself out is still an open question for me.  I hope it is the latter and we are just seeing a slow start to a season that picks up steam as the games go by. 

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hawks27 said on 1 hour ago:

Here are two fairly simple suggestions for the Hawks:

1- When you are on the PP, always out number the opposition around loose pucks, until you have acquired safe possession of the puck.  (Watch Hawk players on the PP fore-check around loose pucks.......sometimes the Hawks are out numbered........that should not be happening.......we have the "extra man," not the opponent.)

2- Always out number the opposition around loose pucks in your D-zone.  In addition, always have someone defending the front of the net if the puck is not securely in your team's possession.

I coached hockey for over 30 years before retiring from the competitive version, and continued to work as an instructor in many summer hockey camps (until 2010) with players ranging from Pee Wees to NHL level.  The players at all levels understood how to do these things, so it seems that the Hawks should probably be able to follow through on them too (some were in camps in which I worked).  It might not solve all of their problems on the PP and D-zone play, but it should help to make those areas more workable for the Hawks. 

I'm sure that Coach Q knows these strategies, now it's up to him and the other coaches to get the players to perform together to accomplish them.

Excellent post and while I've never coached hockey, I have noticed these things in a vaguer sense.  Unfortunately, one need go no further--in most of our games this season--than to watch our opponents for the correct or more correct way of doing PP or 5-on-5 in-zone defense.  They typically do #1 and #2.  We have typically not done so. 

Last night, even though the team played well 5-on-5 in the neutral and offensive zones (a bona fide start that need not be forgotten), it's still struggling on the PP and 5-on-5 defensive zone.

I suppose the best analysis as to why these continue to occur would account for all the newness of all these bodies over the past couple of seasons.

Edited by GigECJ

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hawks27 said on 1 hour ago:

Here are two fairly simple suggestions for the Hawks:

1- When you are on the PP, always out number the opposition around loose pucks, until you have acquired safe possession of the puck.  (Watch Hawk players on the PP fore-check around loose pucks.......sometimes the Hawks are out numbered........that should not be happening.......we have the "extra man," not the opponent.)

2- Always out number the opposition around loose pucks in your D-zone.  In addition, always have someone defending the front of the net if the puck is not securely in your team's possession.

I coached hockey for over 30 years before retiring from the competitive version, and continued to work as an instructor in many summer hockey camps (until 2010) with players ranging from Pee Wees to NHL level.  The players at all levels understood how to do these things, so it seems that the Hawks should probably be able to follow through on them too (some were in camps in which I worked).  It might not solve all of their problems on the PP and D-zone play, but it should help to make those areas more workable for the Hawks. 

I'm sure that Coach Q knows these strategies, now it's up to him and the other coaches to get the players to perform together to accomplish them.

Good post. I think some of these problems have become endemic in whatever the system it is the Hawks employ. The PP has mostly been grim for years, despite a glut of world class players. Their own end play to me has always been somewhat lackadaisical but has been masked by above average goaltending and their propensity for owning the puck. By the time a player has reached this level they've had 15 years plus of coaching, in season and off as well, so I almost have to believe that the team has either been coached to play this way or there is no accountability, regardless of the player's status, for failed assignments. Every Q presser has him reinforcing how or what they should have done but the product  on the ice don't always resemble the actual desired results. Now is it a matter of can't or won't follow instructions?

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GigECJ said on 26 minutes ago:

Excellent post and while I've never coached hockey, I have noticed these things in a vaguer sense.  Unfortunately, one need go no further--in most of our games this season--than to watch our opponents for the correct or more correct way of doing PP or in-zone defense.  They typically do #1 and #2.  We have typically not done so. 

Last night, even though the team played well 5-on-5 in the neutral and offensive zones (a bona fide start that need not be forgotten), it's still struggling on the PP and 5-on-5 defensive zone.

I suppose the best analysis as to why these continue to occur would account for all the newness of all these bodies over the past couple of seasons.

As to the PP, if the Rangers' PP was #3 in the league, then the Hawks don't have far to go to improve theirs.  That Ranger PP, which was praised by Eddie to no end, was horrible, especially the 4 minute bust.  A real credit to the Hawk PK!!!. 

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jacksalmon said on 21 minutes ago:

As to the PP, if the Rangers' PP was #3 in the league, then the Hawks don't have far to go to improve theirs.  That Ranger PP, which was praised by Eddie to no end, was horrible, especially the 4 minute bust.  A real credit to the Hawk PK!!!. 

Yes the PK was impressive. So how come they play more aggressively and more importantly, smarter in their own end when they're short handed? 

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tincup61 said on 27 minutes ago:

Yes the PK was impressive. So how come they play more aggressively and more importantly, smarter in their own end when they're short handed? 

The success of a PK can almost simply be summed up as:  4 skaters have to out-work 5 skaters to be successful.  When a team has a man (or two) advantage on the ice, it is not guaranteed to be successful unless it out-works the short-handed team.  Sure, there are team strategies involved on the PP, but the fact that the Hawks' PK has been pretty good this season should be an indication that if the PP would up their energy and work ethic they could be more successful on it also.

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Big-T said on 6 hours ago:

We need Panik, Sharp, Toews, and Saad along with AA to drive the net, that right there is why the Hawks look lazy, 97.6789% of the team won’t drive the net. Get stuck on the outside and we lose. Nice to see Dcat earning a spot. But I hope his goal last night doesn’t become the norm. That’s just luck!!!

It was two home games, so Toews line played shudown role and I guesss that S-T-P line will be the better line in road games, when ops top lines and top d-pairings will focus on Schmaltz-AA-Kane.

Edited by Modry-Jazyk

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hawks27 said on 1 hour ago:

The success of a PK can almost simply be summed up as:  4 skaters have to out-work 5 skaters to be successful.  When a team has a man (or two) advantage on the ice, it is not guaranteed to be successful unless it out-works the short-handed team.  Sure, there are team strategies involved on the PP, but the fact that the Hawks' PK has been pretty good this season should be an indication that if the PP would up their energy and work ethic they could be more successful on it also.

Totally agree but I guess the point I was trying to make is that when they’re full strength and defending their own zone, they seem to lose all structure and just chase around chaotically, pretty much the opposite of the discipline they’ve been showing on the kill. This is where I think a bit of physicality might help, less stick work and more bumping.

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tincup61 said on 5 hours ago:

I highly recommend Keith avoid the sketchier areas of town lest he gets mugged. He seems totally oblivious to things that aren’t standing directly in front of him.

I'll admit...I LOLed. :)

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Modry-Jazyk said on 1 hour ago:

It was two home games, so Toews line played shudown role and I guesss that S-T-P line will be the better line in road games, when ops top lines and top d-pairings will focus on Schmaltz-AA-Kane.

I'll keep an eye on that. 

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tincup61 said on 2 hours ago:

Totally agree but I guess the point I was trying to make is that when they’re full strength and defending their own zone, they seem to lose all structure and just chase around chaotically, pretty much the opposite of the discipline they’ve been showing on the kill. This is where I think a bit of physicality might help, less stick work and more bumping.

Your observations of the 5x5 is dead on.  Puzzling isn't it, when compared to the way they have been doing on the PK.  In many cases, it's the same personnel that we are seeing in both instances.????

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tincup61 said on 9 hours ago:

As for the defense, that was the most equitable TOI all year with Seabrook getting the least, although you could argue Franson might have deserved that dubious distinction. 

here's an article about seabrook's ice time in case you didn't see it. 

i thought he still had a bit of a rough game but his mistakes were less noticeable than previous games. if less ice time is the answer than i'm all for it. less ice time for a player with his mileage should be considered regardless of how he's playing.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/drop-in-ice-time-leads-to-an-elevation-in-brent-seabrooks-play/amp/

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galaxytrash said on 5 minutes ago:

here's an article about seabrook's ice time in case you didn't see it. 

i thought he still had a bit of a rough game but his mistakes were less noticeable than previous games. if less ice time is the answer than i'm all for it. less ice time for a player with his mileage should be considered regardless of how he's playing.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/drop-in-ice-time-leads-to-an-elevation-in-brent-seabrooks-play/amp/

Seems to be saying the right things although I’m sure he hates it. With 8 defense I don’t see why they can’t manage minutes for the foreseeable future. Keith could  use some time off as well, say, maybe no more PP time?

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galaxytrash said on 34 minutes ago:

here's an article about seabrook's ice time in case you didn't see it. 

i thought he still had a bit of a rough game but his mistakes were less noticeable than previous games. if less ice time is the answer than i'm all for it. less ice time for a player with his mileage should be considered regardless of how he's playing.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/drop-in-ice-time-leads-to-an-elevation-in-brent-seabrooks-play/amp/

this is nice but losing 7M of cap in next 7 seasons for low TOI  bottom #6 Dman is not long term solution.

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Modry-Jazyk said on 6 minutes ago:

this is nice but losing 7M of cap in next 7 seasons for low TOI  bottom #6 Dman is not long term solution.

of course it's not, but it is what it is.

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tincup61 said on 35 minutes ago:

Seems to be saying the right things although I’m sure he hates it. With 8 defense I don’t see why they can’t manage minutes for the foreseeable future. Keith could  use some time off as well, say, maybe no more PP time?

just guessing here, but i'm not sure he hates it. he has to realize his ability is slipping (that part he must hate for sure) and that less minutes might do him and the team good.

about DK...less PP time would be fine by me. 

Edited by galaxytrash

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Modry-Jazyk said on 17 hours ago:

this is nice but losing 7M of cap in next 7 seasons for low TOI  bottom #6 Dman is not long term solution.

I think he retires before the end of that contract.

SB did him good.  IMO, Seabs will show self-pride...do you think he will want to play another 7 years?  Can he physically hold up that long?  Cheers if he can.

Edited by iknowpuck

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iknowpuck said on 18 hours ago:

I think he retires before the end of that contract.

SB did him good.  IMO, Seabs will show self-pride...do you think he will want to play another 7 years?  Can he physically hold up that long?  Cheers if he can.

Well looking at this schedule coming up and maybe it's the Jack that has me scratching my head because I didn't see or really look at it but this sucks and we will find out how good Seabs holds up. After this game vs. the Rangers they play 2 games in 9 days...............then the next 9 days they play 6 games with travel? Holy fatigue Batman this is not gonna look good.

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Creature1958 said on 5 minutes ago:

Well looking at this schedule coming up and maybe it's the Jack that has me scratching my head because I didn't see or really look at it but this sucks and we will find out how good Seabs holds up. After this game vs. the Rangers they play 2 games in 9 days...............then the next 9 days they play 6 games with travel? Holy fatigue Batman this is not gonna look good.

Still a VERY big difference between 6 games in 9 days and 7 more YEARS.

I like Seabs...but that is asking a lot of him.

Edited by iknowpuck

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iknowpuck said on 18 hours ago:

I think he retires before the end of that contract.

SB did him good.  IMO, Seabs will show self-pride...do you think he will want to play another 7 years?  Can he physically hold up that long?  Cheers if he can.

I think you're right; that would be the best for both the team and for Seabrook himself. His salary starts to slightly decline after the 2018-2019 season -- not as dramatically as Hossa's, but nonetheless.

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Granada said on 10 minutes ago:

I think you're right; that would be the best for both the team and for Seabrook himself. His salary starts to slightly decline after the 2018-2019 season -- not as dramatically as Hossa's, but nonetheless.

I think he sits a year or two on LTIR and collects money on his insurance, then decides to quit. If he declines at a steady pace like this, the team will have no option but to LTIR him and there’s no other options due to a No Movement Clause. No farm or trade. But my best guess is this, Seabs probably wants 6 of those 8 years, and if he can do it, he will, but I think he helps the Hawks and retires, they’ll eventually give him a nice paying job in the org!!!

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