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'17/18 hawks outlook

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Big-T said on 2 minutes ago:

 I feel better moves were made this year, and we're going in a better path, but there's still a few unknowns, sometimes the unknown is the saviour we desire!!!

that is DEEP, man.

happy birthday, btw.  :)

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galaxytrash said on 20 minutes ago:

that is DEEP, man.

happy birthday, btw.  :)

Lotus position everyone and repeat after me ... OHM. :D 

 

Oh - and happy birthday T'ster.

Edited by EbonyRaptor
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Big-T said on 48 minutes ago:

Lordy, don't forget the Wings also had no salary cap to deal with. My point is, the Wings kept bringing in older and older guys and kept winning. We have a 32 and 34 year old top defensemen. Keith will be ok, I still believe he has another Norris in him, Lidstrom won 7, yes 7 starting at age 30 with his first. He won 4 in from 35 till he was 40. I believe Keith is not much below Lidstrom, and he's still young in my eyes. Everyone counted out the Pens, EVERYONE. Their top dman had a gawd damn stroke. Yes a stroke, and he came back and won. We have players like that, lots of them, all we need is for our management to supply the core players with decent talent, and that's where I've disagreed with management. I feel better moves were made this year, and we're going in a better path, but there's still a few unknowns, sometimes the unknown is the saviour we desire!!!

 I'm guessing Big T has forgotten more about this game than I'll ever know! I'm buying in on this! I agree Dunc has another Norris in him! Happy Bday as well!

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galaxytrash said on 9 hours ago:

that is DEEP, man.

happy birthday, btw.  :)

Thanks my man. I think in the end, we all want the same thing! A bday wish from Bubbles!!!

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There are reasons for pessimism, but I'm optimistic (despite the losses of Hoss and Hammer).  First of all, this has to be the most physical team they've had since 2010.  Secondly, it doesn't appear that they got any slower.  For example, when we consider Conner Murphy, as much as I love Hammer, he does skate faster.  The "kids" may not be alright yet, but they may be alright this next season.  I look for Tazer to have an award-contending season (Selke, MVP).   All my intuition says that he's had enough (rest, first round exits).

Go Hawks!

 

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Big-T said on 11 hours ago:

Lordy, don't forget the Wings also had no salary cap to deal with. My point is, the Wings kept bringing in older and older guys and kept winning. We have a 32 and 34 year old top defensemen. Keith will be ok, I still believe he has another Norris in him, Lidstrom won 7, yes 7 starting at age 30 with his first. He won 4 in from 35 till he was 40. I believe Keith is not much below Lidstrom, and he's still young in my eyes. Everyone counted out the Pens, EVERYONE. Their top dman had a gawd damn stroke. Yes a stroke, and he came back and won. We have players like that, lots of them, all we need is for our management to supply the core players with decent talent, and that's where I've disagreed with management. I feel better moves were made this year, and we're going in a better path, but there's still a few unknowns, sometimes the unknown is the saviour we desire!!!

I'm not on any of our players about age except the fact that when Keith and Seabs are up, chances are good they're hanging it up.  Just look at Hossa last season or Jagr--both geriatric and still top players.

My point is that when you look at Detroit's old times and Pittsburgh's old timers...they brought it and that's why they won it.  Our core is no different.  If the core brings it, they have a solid chance at winning--all of our 5M+ players are proven winners and know what they have to do--and with proper depth a cup is certainly possible.  If they don't, we get swept in the 1st round regardless of the depth we have--like last season.  The core is the horse, the depth is the cart.  You could argue that we had a cart with defective wheels and broken axles on the cart last season, but let's not pretend we had a thoroughbred pulling it--more like a horse that was headed to the glue factory.  A better cart IMHO would not have made the difference.

I do agree that for the most part the depth issues have been at least somewhat addressed.  But to be better than last season the core has to be better than last season regardless--and I think if we have any player who is starting their ELC this season or is a slide that seriously looks like the real deal, it might be more prodent to hang onto them and use the next-tier assets to bolster the depth--just my opinion.

P.S.  Happy birthday!

 

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Created before the PTO’s

2017-18 Roster

Saad (200)                        Toews (201)                     Panik (208)

DeBrincat (165)               AA(198)                             Kane (177)

Sharp (200)                      Kero (185)                        Hartman (181)

Bouma (208)                   Hayden (223)                  Wingels (200)

Spares                Schmaltz             Hinostroza         Jurco

                            Keith(192)                         Murphy (212)

                            Forsling (186)                  Seabrook (220)

                            Kempny (194)                  Rutta (200)

Spares                Svedberg (238)  Pokka (200)        Rozsival  (210)

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nighbor said on 8 hours ago:

Created before the PTO’s

2017-18 Roster

Saad (200)                        Toews (201)                     Panik (208)

DeBrincat (165)               AA(198)                             Kane (177)

Sharp (200)                      Kero (185)                        Hartman (181)

Bouma (208)                   Hayden (223)                  Wingels (200)

Spares                Schmaltz             Hinostroza         Jurco

                            Keith(192)                         Murphy (212)

                            Forsling (186)                  Seabrook (220)

                            Kempny (194)                  Rutta (200)

Spares                Svedberg (238)  Pokka (200)        Rozsival  (210)

Somehow I think Schmaltz will be in the regular lineup, not a spare.

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nighbor said on 8 hours ago:

Created before the PTO’s

2017-18 Roster

Saad (200)                        Toews (201)                     Panik (208)

DeBrincat (165)               AA(198)                             Kane (177)

Sharp (200)                      Kero (185)                        Hartman (181)

Bouma (208)                   Hayden (223)                  Wingels (200)

Spares                Schmaltz             Hinostroza         Jurco

                            Keith(192)                         Murphy (212)

                            Forsling (186)                  Seabrook (220)

                            Kempny (194)                  Rutta (200)

Spares                Svedberg (238)  Pokka (200)        Rozsival  (210)

Even though it was hard to look at I think those are close to what the lines will be. But I think Hayden will start in Rockford and Schmaltz will be on the 3rd line with Hartman dropping to the 4th. Originally I wanted Hartman on the 3rd and thought Schmaltz would be the 2LW but Debrincat looks very determined and improved his all around game a lot.

Saad-Toews-Panik

Debrincat-Anisimov-Kane

Sharp-Kero-Schmaltz

Bouma-Kampf/Dauphin-Wingels

Last years camp was DCats 1st and Kaner couldn't stop raving about Alex, if Alex stays he'd be wicked opposite Kane, and unlike Panarin he isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas, most of his goals are from the hash marks down and one timers. And I don't get how almost everyone has him listed at 165 when he was 165 last year, he definitely bulked up since then. 

And I'd have the D pairs the same. 

Of course after PTO's Mitchell could be the 4C and both Franson and Stuart could be the bottom pair D.

Edited by OldTimeHawky

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yooper496 said on 1 hour ago:

Somehow I think Schmaltz will be in the regular lineup, not a spare.

I agree.

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LordKOTL said on On 9/14/2017 at 7:25 AM:

I'm not on any of our players about age except the fact that when Keith and Seabs are up, chances are good they're hanging it up.  Just look at Hossa last season or Jagr--both geriatric and still top players.

My point is that when you look at Detroit's old times and Pittsburgh's old timers...they brought it and that's why they won it.  Our core is no different.  If the core brings it, they have a solid chance at winning--all of our 5M+ players are proven winners and know what they have to do--and with proper depth a cup is certainly possible.  If they don't, we get swept in the 1st round regardless of the depth we have--like last season.  The core is the horse, the depth is the cart.  You could argue that we had a cart with defective wheels and broken axles on the cart last season, but let's not pretend we had a thoroughbred pulling it--more like a horse that was headed to the glue factory.  A better cart IMHO would not have made the difference.

I do agree that for the most part the depth issues have been at least somewhat addressed.  But to be better than last season the core has to be better than last season regardless--and I think if we have any player who is starting their ELC this season or is a slide that seriously looks like the real deal, it might be more prodent to hang onto them and use the next-tier assets to bolster the depth--just my opinion.

P.S.  Happy birthday!

 

To achieve success, I believe the core will have to have outstanding years, not just good years.  I mean really outstanding like 30 to 40 goals for Toews, Saad and Kane and a Vezina-type year from Crawford with Keith and Seabrook bringing it on defense as well as offense.  The support players are the ones who will have to have the good years.  If either fails to achieve those levels, it is Red Wing City. 

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jacksalmon said on 2 hours ago:

To achieve success, I believe the core will have to have outstanding years, not just good years.  I mean really outstanding like 30 to 40 goals for Toews, Saad and Kane and a Vezina-type year from Crawford with Keith and Seabrook bringing it on defense as well as offense.  The support players are the ones who will have to have the good years.  If either fails to achieve those levels, it is Red Wing City. 

I understand the Hawks have a system built somewhat like the Wings had forany years, the 2 teams are nowhere comparable. The Wings achieved greatness during a time where salary cap was non existent. Think what it would of cost to have Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hasek, Hull, Lindstrom, Yzerman, Shanahan, Federov just to name a few from. The Hawks situation is due to the cap and mismanagement of money and salaries, to say they will end up like Detroit is nonsense. The Hawks core dont need to have stellar years they just need to perform to level thats expected. I may be in minority but I think this team is going to surprise many, keep flying under the radar, they will be a formidable opponent. 

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I keep comparing them to the Red Wings because there was a gradual falloff from their great years to the bums they are now.  The Hawks have not reached the bum level, though.  They may be in a gradual fadeaway though.  I am not making any other comparisons having to do with cap management because, as you say, there was no cap for the Wings.  Instead, as do all great teams, they fade away eventually. 

I will still say the Hawks will do the same unless the core has stellar years, or as you put it, perform up to expectations.  To me, paying Toews and Kane $10.5 mill is paying for those stellar years, which includes 30 to 40 goals apiece from them.  That is, the expectation is that they will have stellar years.  They are not being paid $10.5 to score 20 goals and end up with 60 points apiece.  More is expected; and unless they produce at that exceptional level, they will fade away to former stars performing at a mediocre level with salaries that far exceed their production levels. 

At this point, I think that most have to realize that players of their quality could well bounce back and do really well, especially since they haven't even cracked 30 except for Keith and Seabrook.  But, playing defense can be done at a high level at their ages.  These guys could go either way and I guess this season will tell us where they are headed.  Still hard for me to figure how they got so wasted by the Preds, if they still got it in them.  But, every year is a new year and I guess they can show last year was a fluke and that they are better than what they showed against the Preds, which was next to nothing. 

Edited by jacksalmon
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this is a piece that shows which milestones are in reach this season for a number of hawks this season.

this is from the article and is the one that impresses and surprises me the most. i guess i just didn't really realize how long seabs has been around.

pretty heady crowd to be in.

time she does fly.

Brent Seabrook-1,000 Games

This is a real big one for me because only 4 players in franchise history have ever played 1,000 games in a Chicago Blackhawks sweater (Stan Mikita, Bobby Hull, Eric Nesterenko, Bob Murray) Seabrook needs to play in 77 games this season to hit the milestone!

https://blackhawkup.com/2017/09/15/chicago-blackhawks-milestones-reach-2017-2018/

Edited by galaxytrash
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yooper496 said on 14 hours ago:

Somehow I think Schmaltz will be in the regular lineup, not a spare.

They already know Schmaltz but they need see these new guys before season starts and decide what to do with them.

Also because of roster limits and salary cap I guess all players who are not waiver eligible will start season in the RF, until Hossa will be put on LTIR and his cap returned to poll after game 1.This includes Schmaltz, DeBrinCat, Forsling, Gus, Hayden, Hino, Kampf and Rutta.So the roster for game 1 could be pretty different to later rosters.

21751682_1356619177770564_82359368304986

Edited by Modry-Jazyk

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After listening to all of the post practice interviews(dam,it feels good to finally write that),it sounds like a very determined,very competitive group. Kane mentioned the Toews,Saad,Panik line was a force out there and he and Q both mentioned John Hayden and how hard he's worked and how good he was today. It also sounds like Sharpie's ready to roll,he said he could have had the hip done a few years back and he's happy he finally did. Kane and Sharp both were in town all summer skating with Schmaltz,Hartman and Hino.

Saad and Sharp couldn't be happier to be back and Q said all he wants from D-cat is to play the offensive game he always has but I'm quite sure some back-checkin' won't make him mad either. I'm excited but I'm sure that surprises no one LOL!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!     

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Modry-Jazyk said on 10 hours ago:

They already know Schmaltz but they need see these new guys before season starts and decide what to do with them.

Also because of roster limits and salary cap I guess all players who are not waiver eligible will start season in the RF, until Hossa will be put on LTIR and his cap returned to poll after game 1.This includes Schmaltz, DeBrinCat, Forsling, Gus, Hayden, Hino, Kampf and Rutta.So the roster for game 1 could be pretty different to later rosters.

21751682_1356619177770564_82359368304986

You bet, M-J.  A few weeks ago I posted that the Hawks may have a 21 player roster (w/ Hossa) for the opener for the same reasons you just said.  So for that one game the lineup will be different from what it should be thereafter.

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OldTimeHawky said on 23 hours ago:

Even though it was hard to look at I think those are close to what the lines will be. But I think Hayden will start in Rockford and Schmaltz will be on the 3rd line with Hartman dropping to the 4th. Originally I wanted Hartman on the 3rd and thought Schmaltz would be the 2LW but Debrincat looks very determined and improved his all around game a lot.

Saad-Toews-Panik

Debrincat-Anisimov-Kane

Sharp-Kero-Schmaltz

Bouma-Kampf/Dauphin-Wingels

Last years camp was DCats 1st and Kaner couldn't stop raving about Alex, if Alex stays he'd be wicked opposite Kane, and unlike Panarin he isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas, most of his goals are from the hash marks down and one timers. And I don't get how almost everyone has him listed at 165 when he was 165 last year, he definitely bulked up since then. 

And I'd have the D pairs the same. 

Of course after PTO's Mitchell could be the 4C and both Franson and Stuart could be the bottom pair D.

Of the BMW line?  Bouma-Mitchell-Wingels

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yooper496 said on 3 hours ago:

Of the BMW line?  Bouma-Mitchell-Wingels

I like the sounds of that, but are any of them from Bavaria? I think that would be a "professional" line and do what is needed. Wingels put up good numbers a few years back, 16 goals I believe, and he has a nice scoring touch. Personally, I feel Bouma will be a platoon guy who sees every 3rd game or so. Hayden can be groomed to be the "X" factor, so he should be on the 3/4 lines. 

Saad Toews Panik

Sharp AA Kane

Hartman Schmaltz Hayden

Bouma Kero Wingels/Fortin/Dauphin/Etc. 

Unless Yurcho makes an immediate impact, I feel he'll be out on waivers as there is absolutely no room for him. I'm think that there may not be room for AA anymore. If Kero, Dauphin, and Schmaltz can all handle centre, we have zero room for AA, and I feel he will be moved by Yanksgiving, just my thoughts!!!

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I think to have any sort of semblance of a contending team, they need Debrincat on the 2nd line with Kane.   It's not like Panarin was that different a player then Debrincat is going to be, and we will need the scoring depth of moving Sharp down to the 3rd line with Hartman and Schmaltz.  

Kane will produce with anybody, and Debrincat will most certainly be a Calder Finalist on Kane's line.  

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ChapsZ28 said on 1 hour ago:

I think to have any sort of semblance of a contending team, they need Debrincat on the 2nd line with Kane.   It's not like Panarin was that different a player then Debrincat is going to be, and we will need the scoring depth of moving Sharp down to the 3rd line with Hartman and Schmaltz.  

Kane will produce with anybody, and Debrincat will most certainly be a Calder Finalist on Kane's line.  

I am not going to say what kind of year Debrincat will have, but I will say this.  Last year, a few of the rookies had good years in the NHL regular season.   They completely disappeared in the one round of playoffs against the Preds and only recently have been the reports of renewed sightings.  It is not necessarily true that Debrincat will be wildly successful in the NHL in his rookie season.  Last year's rookies learned that competing in this league is a far cry from success in the minors when it came to playoff time.  Remember, Debrincat only has played at the Junior level and has not even skated at the Icehog level of play.  He has got a lot to learn.  We'll have to see how he does in school.   

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jacksalmon said on 4 minutes ago:

I am not going to say what kind of year Debrincat will have, but I will say this.  Last year, a few of the rookies had good years in the NHL regular season.   They completely disappeared in the one round of playoffs against the Preds and only recently have been the reports of renewed sightings.  It is not necessarily true that Debrincat will be wildly successful in the NHL in his rookie season.  Last year's rookies learned that competing in this league is a far cry from success in the minors when it came to playoff time.  Remember, Debrincat only has played at the Junior level and has not even skated at the Icehog level of play.  He has got a lot to learn.  We'll have to see how he does in school.   

the truth is Hawks (almost ALL) disappeared not in 1st round of playoffs but after they took safe lead in W. Conf., I think it was right before lazy loss in Tampa followed by 0-7 disaster in Florida.

(Then they coasted thru all games for rest of the reg. season and never came back in playoffs, they simply didn't find "meaningless<-->important games" switch so Nashville express hit them hard.)

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Remember this, Q doesn't really have 3 scoring lines, he has a traditional top 6, and a checking line (3rd) and an energy line (4th). So moving Sharp to the 3rd line really accomplishes nothing. We should take advantage of Sharps inexpensive contract and let him reap the rewards of playing with Kane, for the benefit of the team. I believe it's best to keep Debrincat off the roster this year, unless there's an injury. Or possibly use him as trade bait to better the roster. I would love to see AA, Debrincat and Forsling traded for Duchene. Have the Avs retain 2 million and we have a solid roster and room to play with at the trade deadline. It's all about winning now!!!

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Big-T said on 11 hours ago:

Remember this, Q doesn't really have 3 scoring lines, he has a traditional top 6, and a checking line (3rd) and an energy line (4th). So moving Sharp to the 3rd line really accomplishes nothing. We should take advantage of Sharps inexpensive contract and let him reap the rewards of playing with Kane, for the benefit of the team. I believe it's best to keep Debrincat off the roster this year, unless there's an injury. Or possibly use him as trade bait to better the roster. I would love to see AA, Debrincat and Forsling traded for Duchene. Have the Avs retain 2 million and we have a solid roster and room to play with at the trade deadline. It's all about winning now!!!

make a note of the source and take it for what it's worth.

he tweeted something along those lines yesterday and tweeted this again just now.

 

 

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