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LordKOTL said on 3 hours ago:

I ain't saying they don't.  I think Toews play a decent enough game and was rewarded for playing a 2-way Hossa like-game and bailing out someone who should never need bailing out in the backend.  He def. needs to keep that up.  It's a step in the right direction.  Credit where credit is due.

Keith's play was inexcusable.  Matthew Keith would have been an upgrade over his lobotomized play last night.

It seems once one guy gets going, another falls flat. Just can’t seem to get all these guys going at once. Dcat may end up leading the Hawks, and that’s sad when a rookie leads men!!!

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Big-T said on Just now:

It seems once one guy gets going, another falls flat. Just can’t seem to get all these guys going at once. Dcat may end up leading the Hawks, and that’s sad when a rookie leads men!!!

I believe the same happened in a lot of our current core players' rookie seasons.  Kane and Toews both had stellar 2008 campaigns, and Even Seabs and Keith looked solid compared to Augroin, Babchuk, and Cullimore back in 2006...granted, that wasn't much of a team back then.
But an interesting factoid I picked up.  While +/- is never completely indicative, since Nov. 7th (one month prior to today), Seabs was a -1 and Keith was a -2.  In the same timespan Seabs jumped +9 to a +89, while Keith dropped -9 to -11.

Crawford being out and not being pulled when he got injured probably plays a role, as well as Seabs reduced icetime and not running him roughshod helped his numbers, Keith's freefall is disturbing.  Sure, I'm riding him hard about last night because it's well-deserved, but even so I think it might be a positive indication he needs his time/responsibility cut.

And I'm not being overly negative with that.  Yeah, guys like Forsling, Murph, etc. have growing pains.  So did Keith.  But if Keith, like Seabs, can be more effective with less time/responsiblity it could help.  If Forsling/etc. can't take the heat then we may be in trouble no matter what, but much like Hoss last year if our core is fading then I think it's better to put them in positions where they can succeed even though we risk riding the young guys and them failing, rather than riding the vets in positions where they're not doing well and giving the youth no chance to step in.

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Yea no i get a kick out of social media ......Toews is a goat there ...but speak to the hockey crowd ....Toews is a workhorse ..... i tend to agree while the money is high considering team success and individual points he still acts as a top line center and leads the league in at least one category ......

Tickles me .....McD  the more success the more problems ....

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Big-T said on 3 hours ago:

It seems once one guy gets going, another falls flat. Just can’t seem to get all these guys going at once. Dcat may end up leading the Hawks, and that’s sad when a rookie leads men!!!

I remember that Toews and Kane led their team in their rookies years as well and that was fortunate not sad.

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nighbor said on 20 minutes ago:

I remember that Toews and Kane led their team in their rookies years as well and that was fortunate not sad.

And they missed the playoffs. Unfortunately now they’re closer to the end and not the beginning!!!

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LordKOTL said on 3 hours ago:

I believe the same happened in a lot of our current core players' rookie seasons.  Kane and Toews both had stellar 2008 campaigns, and Even Seabs and Keith looked solid compared to Augroin, Babchuk, and Cullimore back in 2006...granted, that wasn't much of a team back then.
But an interesting factoid I picked up.  While +/- is never completely indicative, since Nov. 7th (one month prior to today), Seabs was a -1 and Keith was a -2.  In the same timespan Seabs jumped +9 to a +89, while Keith dropped -9 to -11.

Crawford being out and not being pulled when he got injured probably plays a role, as well as Seabs reduced icetime and not running him roughshod helped his numbers, Keith's freefall is disturbing.  Sure, I'm riding him hard about last night because it's well-deserved, but even so I think it might be a positive indication he needs his time/responsibility cut.

And I'm not being overly negative with that.  Yeah, guys like Forsling, Murph, etc. have growing pains.  So did Keith.  But if Keith, like Seabs, can be more effective with less time/responsiblity it could help.  If Forsling/etc. can't take the heat then we may be in trouble no matter what, but much like Hoss last year if our core is fading then I think it's better to put them in positions where they can succeed even though we risk riding the young guys and them failing, rather than riding the vets in positions where they're not doing well and giving the youth no chance to step in.

Good post, and I agree about cutting ice time. That’s why I’d love to get a couple of players in their mid 20’s and let them bare the burden of the extra work!!!

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Galaxy,

Thanks for the link... great article. I hope "most" know how stand up he is....  not to turn this into a negative post... but in this day and age it seems like all these "movie stars" and "athletes" seem to need to get "their views" out into the public these days with all this social media and information highway.. I get it just the standard today, would say it's less with NHL'ers.. And not saying Toews is doing this! But.... I for one really don't care about their beliefs or politics. 

I just want to be entertained by their acting or ability to play.. that's what I'm paying for.. I don't really care about their politics or beliefs.. in closing so you don't get the wrong idea... I hope Toews hasn't become to used to the good life and changed the way he plays or looks at the game because of it... but In the same breath I would understand why he would be thinking ahead.. he's won everything and worked hard at it.. I will forever think of him as in the same way I think of Hull, Mikita, Savy, Tony O, Larms, Maggie, and a few others that wore the Indian proudly...

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Angoti said on 2 hours ago:

Galaxy,

Thanks for the link... great article. I hope "most" know how stand up he is....  not to turn this into a negative post... but in this day and age it seems like all these "movie stars" and "athletes" seem to need to get "their views" out into the public these days with all this social media and information highway.. I get it just the standard today, would say it's less with NHL'ers.. And not saying Toews is doing this! But.... I for one really don't care about their beliefs or politics. 

I just want to be entertained by their acting or ability to play.. that's what I'm paying for.. I don't really care about their politics or beliefs.. in closing so you don't get the wrong idea... I hope Toews hasn't become to used to the good life and changed the way he plays or looks at the game because of it... but In the same breath I would understand why he would be thinking ahead.. he's won everything and worked hard at it.. I will forever think of him as in the same way I think of Hull, Mikita, Savy, Tony O, Larms, Maggie, and a few others that wore the Indian proudly...

There is no arguing about if Toews wears the Indian proudly, with all the bashing, and comments I have made about our captain he is indeed a Chicago Blackhawk and a proud one at that. 

The issue is monetary and what he currently brings to the team at that heavy cap hit. Every player has down years and normally when you have the talents and skill set Johnny has you eventually bounce back, ala Kopitar is doing this season. That is not happening here and with the way the entire team is playing as a whole, the captain is a vital part of the teams engine to move them along as is Kaner and CC. I have said multiple times if it’s medical, sit out, if it’s family get some help and take time off, check the ego at the door because as a player he is not helping the cause, it’s making it worse. 

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HIM, Como tele vu... 

Oh I agree hawkinmontreal.. that wasn't the point of my post.. he is not playing well, I know.. and this is why I added this...

"I hope Toews hasn't become to used to the good life and changed the way he plays or looks at the game."

I don't know what's happened to his skills.. but he's not doing much to help this team.. I was just making a point in a nice way that I really don't care what his off ice interests are... I just want to see him preform on the ice.. 

Happy New Year..

P. S. Hope I got my greeting right!! Grin.. being my father was born there... lol

 

 

 

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Galaxy,

Another good one.. all great points,  I think the hidden injury is the first thing we all have in common when a player is not doing well..  I know he took off a few pounds this year... for more speed. but.. if he's lost muscle by eating so clean.. well.. who knows. I just know he's not the same regardless.. Hey!! Who knows.. maybe he's board. Maybe he's found something else in his life he's more interested in... just sayin' 

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Angoti said on 5 hours ago:

HIM, Como tele vu... 

Oh I agree hawkinmontreal.. that wasn't the point of my post.. he is not playing well, I know.. and this is why I added this...

"I hope Toews hasn't become to used to the good life and changed the way he plays or looks at the game."

I don't know what's happened to his skills.. but he's not doing much to help this team.. I was just making a point in a nice way that I really don't care what his off ice interests are... I just want to see him preform on the ice.. 

Happy New Year..

P. S. Hope I got my greeting right!! Grin.. being my father was born there... lol

 

 

 

That’s awesome Angoti, all is good and welcome to the boards. A fresh set of ideas and opinions are always welcome, heavily debated but always welcome. 

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Angoti said on 13 hours ago:

Galaxy,

Another good one.. all great points,  I think the hidden injury is the first thing we all have in common when a player is not doing well..  I know he took off a few pounds this year... for more speed. but.. if he's lost muscle by eating so clean.. well.. who knows. I just know he's not the same regardless.. Hey!! Who knows.. maybe he's board. Maybe he's found something else in his life he's more interested in... just sayin' 

I know it’s different sports, but Bubba Watson looks half dead out there now and his game is suffering too. A lot of athletes change things up because they feel it can better them. But the reality is they were fine to begin with. To me this theory about Toews could make more sense, he looks like he’s getting shoved around out there, he rarely comes out of the corner with the puck, and it seems like his shot is half as hard as it was. But that’s just me, there could be any reason!!!

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I've been called a koolaid drinker and worse for my continued support of JT throughout the last 21/2 campaigns and I'd like to make three statements.....feel free to disagree.

15-16 resulted in a 28 goal season and a 59% FO percentage,it also resulted in some sub-standard defensive and board play admittedly. It also followed two winning cup runs,a WCF appearance and a bit of a revolving door on LW.

The two following postseasons and the 16-17 campaign were indeed sub-standard,I believe fatigue,injuries and more revolving door entered into this performance.

He's on pace for another high 20's year and maybe 30 if he picks it up just a bit and his defensive and board play seem to be coming back to form with a previously unproven winger on his line. I just don't know how much more we can rightfully expect from this 200ft player considering what he's been through. JMO.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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hsbob said on 2 hours ago:

I've been called a koolaid drinker and worse for my continued support of JT throughout the last 21/2 campaigns and I'd like to make three statements.....feel free to disagree.

15-16 resulted in a 28 goal season and a 59% FO percentage,it also resulted in some sub-standard defensive and board play admittedly. It also followed two winning cup runs,a WCF appearance and a bit of a revolving door on LW.

The two following postseasons and the 16-17 campaign were indeed sub-standard,I believe fatigue,injuries and more revolving door entered into this performance.

He's on pace for another high 20's year and maybe 30 if he picks it up just a bit and his defensive and board play seem to be coming back to form with a previously unproven winger on his line. I just don't know how much more we can rightfully expect from this 200ft player considering what he's been through. JMO.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

I don't necessarily disagree,  But compare/contrast Hoss.  After all, Hoss had back-to-back-to-back deep SCF runs and still was the 200-foot demigod.

If Toews doesn't have it he doesn't have it.  Like Seabrook, as much as I want him playing closer to his paycheck, when all is done I'm still going to remember the highlights, like him undressing all 6 Avs players on the ice, and his "where's hossa?" comment in 2010.

I think what gets a lot of us is that he shouldn't be slowing down like he is--at least in a perfect world.

Just because some of us are critical of him (or any of the core) doesn't mean we think he sucks.  :)

Edited by LordKOTL

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a little food for thought: currently tied for second on the team in points (Schmaltz) and goals (D🐈) is one Mr. Jonathan Toews. not world beating numbers by any stretch, but better than they were a month ago. 

hopefully he and his linemates keep their mojo rolling. we look an awful lot better with two scoring lines rather than one!

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Hossa was a freak of nature who should in no way be held up as the norm.    He also played for much of the first half of his career on teams (Ottawa/Atlanta) which rarely lasted a playoff round.   His seasons were much shorter.   

Athletes are much like automobiles.   The age of a vehicle does not matter much.  What counts is the mileage.

When you consider the long playoff rounds and the international tournaments, Toews has played the equivalent number of games of a player who is 35 years old or more.   Factor in the increased intensity of playoff hockey and he could be (in tread-wear as opposed to age) closer to 40 than 35.

 

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LordKOTL said on 1 hour ago:

I don't necessarily disagree,  But compare/contrast Hoss.  After all, Hoss had back-to-back-to-back deep SCF runs and still was the 200-foot demigod.

If Toews doesn't have it he doesn't have it.  Like Seabrook, as much as I want him playing closer to his paycheck, when all is done I'm still going to remember the highlights, like him undressing all 6 Avs players on the ice, and his "where's hossa?" comment in 2010.

I think what gets a lot of us is that he shouldn't be slowing down like he is--at least in a perfect world.

Just because some of us are critical of him (or any of the core) doesn't mean we think he sucks.  :)

No one said anything about sucking except you and how is a pace for 28 and a FO% of 58 not having it? He may have just had a fatigue and injury pleagued rough patch..........let’s wait and see before we disrespectfully kick him to the curb. 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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mvr said on 42 minutes ago:

Hossa was a freak of nature who should in no way be held up as the norm.    He also played for much of the first half of his career on teams (Ottawa/Atlanta) which rarely lasted a playoff round.   His seasons were much shorter.   

Athletes are much like automobiles.   The age of a vehicle does not matter much.  What counts is the mileage.

When you consider the long playoff rounds and the international tournaments, Toews has played the equivalent number of games of a player who is 35 years old or more.   Factor in the increased intensity of playoff hockey and he could be (in tread-wear as opposed to age) closer to 40 than 35.

 

Hoss played in most of the IIHF tournaments when Atlanta was eliminated.  Just sayin'--and it's not like Hossa hasn't been one of the guys representing Slovakia at all international levels throughout his career. 

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LordKOTL said on 4 hours ago:

Hoss played in most of the IIHF tournaments when Atlanta was eliminated.  Just sayin'--and it's not like Hossa hasn't been one of the guys representing Slovakia at all international levels throughout his career. 

Plus 3 straight years of playing into the finals with 3 different teams at a similar age. He played his games. But he sure looked to be in shape, there never was a question about his conditioning.

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tincup61 said on 11 hours ago:

Plus 3 straight years of playing into the finals with 3 different teams at a similar age. He played his games. But he sure looked to be in shape, there never was a question about his conditioning.

Exactly.  Yet with Toews, we hear "fatigue" a lot for Toews when Hossa has been along for as-much or more of a ride than Toews was, and did it when he was significantly older.

Is Toews not conditioning well for whatever reason?

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LordKOTL said on 22 minutes ago:

Exactly.  Yet with Toews, we hear "fatigue" a lot for Toews when Hossa has been along for as-much or more of a ride than Toews was, and did it when he was significantly older.

Is Toews not conditioning well for whatever reason?

There's no bigger fan of Marian Hossa than yours truly but he's called Big Hoss for a reason. He's a much stouter built player than JT and all players absorb abuse and wear n tear differently. Your reluctance to give ANY benefit of a doubt to our three time cup winning captain is a bit extream IMO.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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LordKOTL said on On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:05 AM:

Exactly.  Yet with Toews, we hear "fatigue" a lot for Toews when Hossa has been along for as-much or more of a ride than Toews was, and did it when he was significantly older.

Is Toews not conditioning well for whatever reason?

Is Kane not conditioning at all for whatever reason?  And for 10 years to boot?

 

When you mention Toews and Kane take a long hard look. Toews plays a hard physical game and his total minutes include PK and PP along with his regular shifts. Kane? Ice dancer who is allergic to the word physical. Breaks out in a rash worse than Hossa if asked to lift a weight or hit a player. Guess that is why they never ask much of him. But Toews? I see his leadership of past gone but not so much his game. Hossa I'm sure is a big part of his decline but those are big skates to fill. 

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