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ATNBlackhawksFan said on 13 hours ago:

What other 1C would people like to have other than Jonathan Toews? I look around the league and I'm not sure I'd trade him for anyone else tbh. 

I guess I don't subscribe to the whole - he's not living up to his potential thing - cause I don't think Toews's game is to be a 85 point guy. I think its telling that his goals have been 28 for several seasons. He's consistent. He's a consistent force on both sides of the puck. He's a consistent leader in the room. He's consistently gonna get you over 20 goals and around 60-65 points. He's gonna be responsible defensively, he's gonna be good at the dot and he's gonna battle hard and more often than not he's gonna be that clutch player. That's been his game since he was young. There's a reason winning follows this kid around. 

He is absolutely not immune to criticism. But Kane makes the same money and he has 2 goals. Yes he has more points - but a lot of people are harping on goals. Kane had 1 more goal in the last post season and 1 more point.

I remember an interview where Kane was saying that Toews was working really hard at the ASG and people were coming to him like what's this kids deal - its the ASG why is he doing so much - and he was like - that's him. That's what he does. He just always works hard. lol. 

Anyone who wants to criticize the kid has a right. I'm sure he's just as hard on himself. But the data doesn't really back up some of it in my eyes in a lot of ways I guess. But that's just me. 

When the buzzer on game 82 hits and if he has 14 goals and 20 assists and didn't pull his weight and the Hawks miss the post season - I'll be the first one to criticize him. But he hasn't done anything up to this point to make me think that will be the case. The kid is 61 percent at the dot and he is captaining a team that is sitting in 3rd and 2 points out of first - which is where they've been around this time in seasons past. They came out of Oct with 12 points last year (having played 11 games) and they've come out with 11 points so far - all while having the worst PK in the league of all time. lol. 

Yes Kane does make the same money, and he was also the League MVP and Art Ross winner last season...so let's not leave out that not so small nugget when comparing the two in regard to their salaries.  This is not to MF Toews by any means, but let's not conveniently leave out some pretty big facts to try and strengthen your defense. 

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I'm sure JT would say he's not happy with the way he and the Hawks have played in the past year and I'm sure he will do anything in his power to correct the situation. I still have faith in the core of this team to put it together for another cup run. After all the Hawks were one lucky or unlucky bounce of the puck from advancing last year even if the blows were the better team. Go Hawks

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I will absolutely not diminish Patrick Kane's great career and outstsanding season in any way in defense of Jonathan Toews(it's hard to believe I had to type those last four words),I relentlessly stuck by Kaner throughout the off ice stuff and I felt somewhat vindicated by his Art Ross worthy season last year. When I look at the career numbers of these two great players the offensive similarities are there for all to see. Even with Kane's great season,he has one more career goal in 13 more regular season career games.

88  reg season, 667gms 253gls 672pts +75

88 post season, 123gms 49gls 121pts +7

19 reg season ,  654gms 252gls 569pts +189

19 post season 124gms 39gls 108pts  +19 

It's hard to believe that anyone can gloss over the FACT the Toews is one of the best FO guys in the league. One of the best defenders in the league who routinely goes up against the opponent's best center and has been and will resume being one of the better PK guys in the league. All of these assignments take away from the time he can concentrate on offense yet they haven't hampered his outstanding offensive output.

When these deals were done,the general consensus was Toews was a bit more worthy due to the similar offensive numbers and Toews better all around play,now that Kane has proven to be one of the league's very best offensive players I consider him AS worthy! 

There's no doubt that Kane was the better player last year and yet he has 11 more career goals..............cherry-picking at it's finest I guess!

 

I've defended lesser players than Jonathan Toews around here.............this one's a piece of cake!

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

 

 

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hsbob said on 13 hours ago:

Your new found disdain for Jonathan Toews is duely noted,along with your dire assessment of the team's chances this year. You sound like Toews and the Hawks owe you something...........they owe you nothing!

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!! 

Please bob, tell me where I said the Hawks owe me something? And where I talked about the teams chances, nowhere. So you read peoples post and come up with your assessment of what that particular person said. 

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Been watching these posts back and forth on Toews; and could not resist commenting.  Isn't it the truth that:

1.  Toews is a great player destined for the HOF;

2.  He has led the Hawks to 3 Cups;

3.  His salary (along with Kane's) causes the team to lose the ability to ice better support players;

4.  As a result of #3, success of the team requires that he and Kane step up their games, with Toews having to beef up his offensive numbers and Kane his defense, unless the support players play at such an unexpected high level that they carry more of the load; and, therefore success can be achieved without improved performances from Toews/Kane.

So, as I see it, once the overreactions and excess are eliminated, the posts of every poster here have merit. 

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jacksalmon said on 44 minutes ago:

Been watching these posts back and forth on Toews; and could not resist commenting.  Isn't it the truth that:

1.  Toews is a great player destined for the HOF;

2.  He has led the Hawks to 3 Cups;

3.  His salary (along with Kane's) causes the team to lose the ability to ice better support players;

4.  As a result of #3, success of the team requires that he and Kane step up their games, with Toews having to beef up his offensive numbers and Kane his defense, unless the support players play at such an unexpected high level that they carry more of the load; and, therefore success can be achieved without improved performances from Toews/Kane.

So, as I see it, once the overreactions and excess are eliminated, the posts of every poster here have merit. 

You must be a middle child to be able to take the conciliatory route.

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tincup61 said on 17 minutes ago:

You must be a middle child to be able to take the conciliatory route.

Actually, I am not, but it just seemed to me that most of what has been said here by all posters has merit.  The debate has gotten twisted, so I just tried to distill it down, as I see it, but since i am the oldest child, I believe what I said is pretty darn accurate. 

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hawkinmontreal said on 2 hours ago:

Please bob, tell me where I said the Hawks owe me something? And where I talked about the teams chances, nowhere. So you read peoples post and come up with your assessment of what that particular person said. 

I'm done with this thread and this debate but to prove I never put words in anyone's mouth you said on page 6 of the contenders or lottery team thread......

 

"with many question marks on this team currently you would have to be a true homer to believe they are a cup contender" I am a homer and I do believe.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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Toews, Crawford signed couple of jerseys for happy hockey kids from Slovakia at today's Hawks morning practice at UC.

14915543_10154322288277928_7673207211668

 

Edited by Modry-Jazyk
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jacksalmon said on 6 hours ago:

Been watching these posts back and forth on Toews; and could not resist commenting.  Isn't it the truth that:

1.  Toews is a great player destined for the HOF;

2.  He has led the Hawks to 3 Cups;

3.  His salary (along with Kane's) causes the team to lose the ability to ice better support players;

4.  As a result of #3, success of the team requires that he and Kane step up their games, with Toews having to beef up his offensive numbers and Kane his defense, unless the support players play at such an unexpected high level that they carry more of the load; and, therefore success can be achieved without improved performances from Toews/Kane.

So, as I see it, once the overreactions and excess are eliminated, the posts of every poster here have merit. 

yep. 

 

i've said it once and i'll say it again: he starts slow. as much as anyone here wants him to not do the same thing he has pretty much every season prior to this one, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen. if we get to april and he has had a crap season and we miss the playoffs or are out in the first round and he looks like he is missing that fire we've all grown accustomed to seeing, i'll be right there with ya'll wondering wtf is wrong with 19. until then, can't we all just get along and maybe give him the chance to prove himself worthy of his contract?

 

btw, for those that are wringing their hands regarding 19, if he has another regular ole Toews season, scores 25-30 goals, one of the top fo guys in the league, maybe nominated for the selke, would you be ok with that? would that make you feel as though he earned his contract? just curious as to what some people's expectations are is all.

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Star players in this league have always been paid for past performance.   

Toews' past performance justifies his present salary.   He has earned what he makes now as payback for being grossly underpaid between 2010-16.

Teams need to be loyal to the players who were loyal to them.

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BucksNBlackhawks said on 21 hours ago:

Yes Kane does make the same money, and he was also the League MVP and Art Ross winner last season...so let's not leave out that not so small nugget when comparing the two in regard to their salaries.  This is not to MF Toews by any means, but let's not conveniently leave out some pretty big facts to try and strengthen your defense. 

I didn't forget that at all nor do I think I implied that I did. But they don't give out Art Ross's in the playoffs. Toews playoff performance is something that was dissected and condemned. I was pointing out he had 6 points while Kane had 7 which included 1 goal. And another big issue is that at Game 9 Toews had 1 goal. At game 9 Kane had 2 goals. I even clarify it to say that he does have more points. I'm not pitting one against the other but they do make the same and the fact is - Kane had 1 more goal and 1 more point in the playoffs last year and he also at Game 9 had 1 more goal.

So how much leniency does last year get Patrick Kane before he isn't earning his pay either? His average points is about 70 -  Which is quite a bit less than the 106 that won him the scoring title. So if he gets say 68 - is that enough to earn his salary? So if he ever has a "down" year - are those awards going to be enough to not have people upset? 

Toews past contributions are being glossed over, and the fact that he didn't carry the team is being used as a factor to why he isn't earning his salary. If Toews is being held to the standard of carrying a team on his back as his litmus test for earning his salary - should the Art Ross be Kane's every year? Cause he's not going to go out there and kill penalties, or win face offs, or battle in the corner for pucks, or take abuse in front of the net, or a lot of other things that Toews is tasked with doing. All those intangibles and other things that people don't seem to find the merit in. And Toews isn't going to get a whole bunch of points and carry the team offensively which is very important to some. So Is the Selke/carrying the team on his back Toews litmus and the Art Ross Kane's? 

I'm honestly trying to understand what the kid needs to do to please everyone. 

 

 

 

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ATNBlackhawksFan said on 20 minutes ago:

I didn't forget that at all nor do I think I implied that I did. But they don't give out Art Ross's in the playoffs. Toews playoff performance is something that was dissected and condemned. I was pointing out he had 6 points while Kane had 7 which included 1 goal. And another big issue is that at Game 9 Toews had 1 goal. At game 9 Kane had 2 goals. I even clarify it to say that he does have more points. I'm not pitting one against the other but they do make the same and the fact is - Kane had 1 more goal and 1 more point in the playoffs last year and he also at Game 9 had 1 more goal.

So how much leniency does last year get Patrick Kane before he isn't earning his pay either? His average points is about 70 -  Which is quite a bit less than the 106 that won him the scoring title. So if he gets say 68 - is that enough to earn his salary? So if he ever has a "down" year - are those awards going to be enough to not have people upset? 

Toews past contributions are being glossed over, and the fact that he didn't carry the team is being used as a factor to why he isn't earning his salary. If Toews is being held to the standard of carrying a team on his back as his litmus test for earning his salary - should the Art Ross be Kane's every year? Cause he's not going to go out there and kill penalties, or win face offs, or battle in the corner for pucks, or take abuse in front of the net, or a lot of other things that Toews is tasked with doing. All those intangibles and other things that people don't seem to find the merit in. And Toews isn't going to get a whole bunch of points and carry the team offensively which is very important to some. So Is the Selke/carrying the team on his back Toews litmus and the Art Ross Kane's? 

I'm honestly trying to understand what the kid needs to do to please everyone. 

 

 

 

A couple of things:. To the first paragraph, I am really not concerned about the start for either of them. The fact is, Kane was able to elevate his game since signing the contract while Toews (measured against himself) overall has plateaued or even regressed in some areas. I don't think anybody can objectively say that Toews had a great season last year ( was probably his worst) or that he has shaken out of it so far this year. I have faith in him, I don't think it is permanent, but I am concerned and that is just the long and short of it. 

To the second paragraph, Patrick Kane's actual average is slightly over a PPG for his career, does not matter how he got it there but those are the cold hard facts.  On top of that he has averaged no less than a PPG in any of the last FOUR individual seasons, where he has played in 47 (lockout), 69(injury), 61 (injury), and 82 games. In those seasons his point totals are 55, 69, 64, and 106, respectively ...so as anybody can see the complete story paints a bit of a different picture. 

Toews does all of those things that you mentioned at an elite level, and it in no way gets overlooked, nor should it. But he is paid to be elite at both ends of the ice as Kane is paid to be the best in the league in the offensive zone. If we look at it objectively for a second, Anze Kopitar is in the same class as Toews defensively and has found a way to not let his offensive game suffer while doing it. Toews has a ton of offensive skill and as such I don't see why it's so looked down upon to expect him to use it.  Expecting a guy to live up to the level of play he is very capable of at the price he is getting paid should not be getting the vitriol it is getting. 

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BucksNBlackhawks said on 47 minutes ago:

A couple of things:. To the first paragraph, I am really not concerned about the start for either of them. The fact is, Kane was able to elevate his game since signing the contract while Toews (measured against himself) overall has plateaued or even regressed in some areas. I don't think anybody can objectively say that Toews had a great season last year ( was probably his worst) or that he has shaken out of it so far this year. I have faith in him, I don't think it is permanent, but I am concerned and that is just the long and short of it. 

To the second paragraph, Patrick Kane's actual average is slightly over a PPG for his career, does not matter how he got it there but those are the cold hard facts.  On top of that he has averaged no less than a PPG in any of the last FOUR individual seasons, where he has played in 47 (lockout), 69(injury), 61 (injury), and 82 games. In those seasons his point totals are 55, 69, 64, and 106, respectively ...so as anybody can see the complete story paints a bit of a different picture. 

Toews does all of those things that you mentioned at an elite level, and it in no way gets overlooked, nor should it. But he is paid to be elite at both ends of the ice as Kane is paid to be the best in the league in the offensive zone. If we look at it objectively for a second, Anze Kopitar is in the same class as Toews defensively and has found a way to not let his offensive game suffer while doing it. Toews has a ton of offensive skill and as such I don't see why it's so looked down upon to expect him to use it.  Expecting a guy to live up to the level of play he is very capable of at the price he is getting paid should not be getting the vitriol it is getting. 

I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't be concerned about Toews - I'm concerned about Toews. And no I don't think last season was his best -but like I've said before - I don't think it was near as bad as some are surmising it was. You are saying he has plateaued and/or regressed and I'm not seeing it. I'm honestly not. Not in the way that is getting the vitriol its getting. And you personally might not care about the start - but a lot of other people do and that's the part of my response you chose to reply to. It's what this thread was actually created in response to. 

And there is absolutely people who have said that what Toews has done in the past doesn't matter and those intangibles don't really either. So I would disagree that it in no way gets overlooked.

So Toews is supposed to carry the team and be elite on both ends of the ice and Kane is supposed to create offensively and score and be elite in only that way? That hardly seems fair. 

And in regards to Anze Kopitar. I'm not concerned with what he does for the Kings or his stats tbh. He's getting (or will be getting) 10 million - his fans can worry about if he's making his salary or not. Their numbers are not drastically that far apart (and Kopitar has 119 more career games) and even if they were - I don't think that has any bearings on what Toews has done and will do for this team's past, present or future. 

And no one is saying Toews shouldn't use his offensive ability. At least not that I've seen. I'm just saying that to me - he has - consistently. He has had 28 goals in the last 3 seasons. He's consistent. He's using his offensive ability. (Well not at the very moment. lol) Is it just that it isn't good enough? What would be considered good enough. More goals, more assists? 

Here is Toews Central Scouting report from his draft year.  

https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news/nhl-draft-prospect-report-jonathan-toews/c-479388

He has been everything they touted him to be and then some.  And they barely mention his offensive ability. He was never sold as this amazing offensive talent like Kane was and is. 

I'm honestly not trying to dispute anyone's right to their opinions on who and what they want Toews to be. We are all entitled to that. But I'm just not in agreement with a lot of people's analysis. And I don't think its a question of someone being objective and someone not. I'm sure we both feel we are taking an objective view with which to form our opinions. 

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ATNBlackhawksFan said on On 10/31/2016 at 9:34 AM:

 

Blank post...please delete. 

Edited by Puckjim
Duplicate post...Please delete

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ATNBlackhawksFan said on 8 hours ago:

I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't be concerned about Toews - I'm concerned about Toews. And no I don't think last season was his best -but like I've said before - I don't think it was near as bad as some are surmising it was. You are saying he has plateaued and/or regressed and I'm not seeing it. I'm honestly not. Not in the way that is getting the vitriol its getting. And you personally might not care about the start - but a lot of other people do and that's the part of my response you chose to reply to. It's what this thread was actually created in response to. 

And there is absolutely people who have said that what Toews has done in the past doesn't matter and those intangibles don't really either. So I would disagree that it in no way gets overlooked.

So Toews is supposed to carry the team and be elite on both ends of the ice and Kane is supposed to create offensively and score and be elite in only that way? That hardly seems fair. 

And in regards to Anze Kopitar. I'm not concerned with what he does for the Kings or his stats tbh. He's getting (or will be getting) 10 million - his fans can worry about if he's making his salary or not. Their numbers are not drastically that far apart (and Kopitar has 119 more career games) and even if they were - I don't think that has any bearings on what Toews has done and will do for this team's past, present or future. 

And no one is saying Toews shouldn't use his offensive ability. At least not that I've seen. I'm just saying that to me - he has - consistently. He has had 28 goals in the last 3 seasons. He's consistent. He's using his offensive ability. (Well not at the very moment. lol) Is it just that it isn't good enough? What would be considered good enough. More goals, more assists? 

Here is Toews Central Scouting report from his draft year.  

https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news/nhl-draft-prospect-report-jonathan-toews/c-479388

He has been everything they touted him to be and then some.  And they barely mention his offensive ability. He was never sold as this amazing offensive talent like Kane was and is. 

I'm honestly not trying to dispute anyone's right to their opinions on who and what they want Toews to be. We are all entitled to that. But I'm just not in agreement with a lot of people's analysis. And I don't think its a question of someone being objective and someone not. I'm sure we both feel we are taking an objective view with which to form our opinions. 

I'm OK with the Kopitar comparison to be honest,both are Selke quality defenders,multiple cup winners and both are at 10M or a bit more in Toews case.

A look at the players career stats shows Toews is the better,more consistent offensive player,7 more goals in 119 fewer regular season games. The career post season stats show Toews with 39gls in 124gms and Kopitar with 20gls in 75gms. Toews also had three more goals in his 'down' year last year and his career +189 explains quite a bit of the Hawks recent success IMO. 

I understand that higher expectations come with the bigger contract and I look forward to Toews living up to them. I think this great player has absolutely EARNED a little patience to see how this works out........he is 27 years old and has a lot of hockey in front of him!

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!! 

 

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Puckjim said on 4 minutes ago:

Toews usually starts slow but it's time for him to step it up.

This is the type of comment that absolutely NO ONE has a problem with(not that you'd care anyway Pj LOL!). We all expect more offense than we've seen from JT so far and I have little doubt that we get it........we always have!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!! 

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BucksNBlackhawks said on 10 hours ago:

A couple of things:. To the first paragraph, I am really not concerned about the start for either of them. The fact is, Kane was able to elevate his game since signing the contract while Toews (measured against himself) overall has plateaued or even regressed in some areas. I don't think anybody can objectively say that Toews had a great season last year ( was probably his worst) or that he has shaken out of it so far this year. I have faith in him, I don't think it is permanent, but I am concerned and that is just the long and short of it. 

To the second paragraph, Patrick Kane's actual average is slightly over a PPG for his career, does not matter how he got it there but those are the cold hard facts.  On top of that he has averaged no less than a PPG in any of the last FOUR individual seasons, where he has played in 47 (lockout), 69(injury), 61 (injury), and 82 games. In those seasons his point totals are 55, 69, 64, and 106, respectively ...so as anybody can see the complete story paints a bit of a different picture. 

Toews does all of those things that you mentioned at an elite level, and it in no way gets overlooked, nor should it. But he is paid to be elite at both ends of the ice as Kane is paid to be the best in the league in the offensive zone. If we look at it objectively for a second, Anze Kopitar is in the same class as Toews defensively and has found a way to not let his offensive game suffer while doing it. Toews has a ton of offensive skill and as such I don't see why it's so looked down upon to expect him to use it.  Expecting a guy to live up to the level of play he is very capable of at the price he is getting paid should not be getting the vitriol it is getting. 

This.

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hsbob said on 1 hour ago:

This is the type of comment that absolutely NO ONE has a problem with(not that you'd care anyway Pj LOL!). We all expect more offense than we've seen from JT so far and I have little doubt that we get it........we always have!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!! 

This is where the disconnect for me comes in. I talk a lot (probably too much) to people about this hockey team online. I've been saying - Toews needs to step it up and start producing more offensively and that the team needs more from him in general. I said it last season and I've said it already this season and I've said it in seasons past. And I'll probably say it some point in the future as well. lol. 

But when the dust clears - I can't say I've been so let down by him offensively that I would say - he's only good at faceoffs and that he has lost the ability to be the player he's always been. Not even last season. It wasn't his best for sure. I have no doubt that he'd say that himself. But its like their whole careers and contributions are being vetted by a down season for Toews and career season for Kane. As if that juxtaposition is all they are now. I just don't see it that way. But I'm short - so I don't see a lot of things sometimes. :P

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Modry-Jazyk said on 18 hours ago:

Toews, Crawford signed couple of jerseys for happy hockey kids from Slovakia at today's Hawks morning practice at UC.

14915543_10154322288277928_7673207211668

 

as my wife would say...."Krasne!!!"

ATNBlackhawksFan said on 26 minutes ago:

This is where the disconnect for me comes in. I talk a lot (probably too much) to people about this hockey team online. I've been saying - Toews needs to step it up and start producing more offensively and that the team needs more from him in general. I said it last season and I've said it already this season and I've said it in seasons past. And I'll probably say it some point in the future as well. lol. 

But when the dust clears - I can't say I've been so let down by him offensively that I would say - he's only good at faceoffs and that he has lost the ability to be the player he's always been. Not even last season. It wasn't his best for sure. I have no doubt that he'd say that himself. But its like their whole careers and contributions are being vetted by a down season for Toews and career season for Kane. As if that juxtaposition is all they are now. I just don't see it that way. But I'm short - so I don't see a lot of things sometimes. :P

The vetting down is because the here-and-now is all that matters during a hockey season.  A career retrospective is, of course, a different can-of-worms.  Much like Keith's 2011 blip on the radar I'm sure it won't matter much if/when they decide to raise his number into the rafters (ditto with Toews), but that fact that those seasons were outliers is little consolation when the game in progress is on the line and your highly paid superstar botches a play up.

And no, Toews is not the only guilty party at this.  I've seen clips of Crosby, Ovi, Yzerman, Gretzky, and Brodeur make fundamental bad plays that ended up on the wrong side of a goal.  At the time I bet their fans wanted to throw a brick through their TV, but it was eventually forgotten.

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vadarx said on 16 hours ago:

yep. 

 

i've said it once and i'll say it again: he starts slow. as much as anyone here wants him to not do the same thing he has pretty much every season prior to this one, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen. if we get to april and he has had a crap season and we miss the playoffs or are out in the first round and he looks like he is missing that fire we've all grown accustomed to seeing, i'll be right there with ya'll wondering wtf is wrong with 19. until then, can't we all just get along and maybe give him the chance to prove himself worthy of his contract?

 

btw, for those that are wringing their hands regarding 19, if he has another regular ole Toews season, scores 25-30 goals, one of the top fo guys in the league, maybe nominated for the selke, would you be ok with that? would that make you feel as though he earned his contract? just curious as to what some people's expectations are is all.

You asked, so I will answer regarding my expectations from Toews.  I expect him to continue to be good on faceoffs; on PKs and defensively when he is on the ice.  I have no expectation regarding his offensive performance because I don't have a good feeling about what he is going to do.  However, I would hope that he can net 30 goals and end up with 75 points; and play well offensively in the playoffs, which means scoring some goals, not like last year.  Given his other contributions, that would make me think he is earning his salary. 

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mvr said on 17 hours ago:

Star players in this league have always been paid for past performance.   

Toews' past performance justifies his present salary.   He has earned what he makes now as payback for being grossly underpaid between 2010-16.

Teams need to be loyal to the players who were loyal to them.

This is a great point MVR, it's what I was alluding to when talking about what a player has to work with when negotiating...

They can't enter contract discussions and say "trust me...I'm gonna play great". It's what they've done that puts them in a position of strength (or weakness)

I mean, you can play around with numbers all sorts of ways....I was just having fun with some data on spotrac.com (since Capgeek and GeneralFanager are no more)

You can look at the value Toews has brought over his first 8 seasons in the league. He's helped his team (no doubt) win three Cups at a cash outlay of @ 39 million, including signing bonuses....

Which means Toews has 3 Cups @ 4.875 per season over 8 years.

You can say that only Cups matter, and argue Toews is really getting paid 13 million per season. Because a year without a Cup is a wasted year.

Then you can look at the remaining 7 years on his paper that adds  @ 95.3 million. all told.  He;s gotta lead the way to at least 2 more Cups to make the investment start to make sense, and that's conservative. Or is it?

I mean different sport, and the NFL is the 800 pound gorilla...but Tom Brady has been to 6 Super Bowls and is 4-2. Toews has been to 3 Cup Finals and is 3-0 

Toews current deal will net him @ 135 million after 17 seasons. Brady's deal will net him @ 230 million after 20 seasons.

Toews plays 82 games per year. Brady, 16.

It's all spitballing. ...just sayin'

Meanwhile, I'll sweat my yearly review, be glad to take my 3.58% bonus and 2% raise...appreciate being told I'm "exceeding expectations"..please don't leave...and then hustle up before my Kohl's Cash ticket expires....I do wanna look professional :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 1 hour ago:

This is a great point MVR, it's what I was alluding to when talking about what a player has to work with when negotiating...

They can't enter contract discussions and say "trust me...I'm gonna play great". It's what they've done that puts them in a position of strength (or weakness)

I mean, you can play around with numbers all sorts of ways....I was just having fun with some data on spotrac.com (since Capgeek and GeneralFanager are no more)

You can look at the value Toews has brought over his first 8 seasons in the league. He's helped his team (no doubt) win three Cups at a cash outlay of @ 39 million, including signing bonuses....

Which means Toews has 3 Cups @ 4.875 per season over 8 years.

You can say that only Cups matter, and argue Toews is really getting paid 13 million per season. Because a year without a Cup is a wasted year.

Then you can look at the remaining 7 years on his paper that adds  @ 95.3 million. all told.  He;s gotta lead the way to at least 2 more Cups to make the investment start to make sense, and that's conservative. Or is it?

I mean different sport, and the NFL is the 800 pound gorilla...but Tom Brady has been to 6 Super Bowls and is 4-2. Toews has been to 3 Cup Finals and is 3-0 

Toews current deal will net him @ 135 million after 17 seasons. Brady's deal will net him @ 230 million after 20 seasons.

Toews plays 82 games per year. Brady, 16.

It's all spitballing. ...just sayin'

Meanwhile, I'll sweat my yearly review, be glad to take my 3.58% bonus and 2% raise...appreciate being told I'm "exceeding expectations"..please don't leave...and then hustle up before my Kohl's Cash ticket expires....I do wanna look professional :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I won't get into comparing Hockey and Gridiron, especially since Hockey is *actually* 60 mins/game, rather than 11 and change (and they don't spend more time in replays than playing the actual game in Hockey, but I digress).

Your post has a lot of merit, and I do agree, Toews earned his 10.5. The play that got him that 10.5 was him playing like he was 10.5.  He just needs to continue playing at that 10.5. 

Last year?  Not quite.  He's not the only one that fell short though IMHO. 

Last 2 games Toews looked more like the Toews we all know and love.  I'm hoping this continues.  Even if he's not denting the twine or setting Kaner up he's looked a lot more poised out there.

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As far as I am concerned, Toews and Kane have earned their $10.5 M for the next decade even if they never play another game.

Ditto Keith, Seabrook and all the other core guys who paid their dues to get what they earn.

At this stage, it doesn't matter what they do from this point forward.  They have won three cups (three more than most ever believed would happen).   My goodness.    

I have never been a fan of buying "big name" UFAs (paying players for past performance done elsewhere).   I do believe in rewarding those who have helped this team here in the now and holding on to as many of them as you can.

Nobody deserves Mr. Wirtz's cash more than Toews. 

 

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