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hawkinmontreal said on 10 hours ago:

Yeah caddie, thats exactly it,  he is an overpaid bum, you nailed that one. Thats exactly what I said. 

 

Sorry, HIM...I did not mean to imply that you called him an overpaid bum. Those were, in fact, my words. If I had broken down his numbers in more detail, it would show that in the first 6-7 games in 7 of his first 9 seasons, his output was almost nil, often with zero goals scored.

So anyone would call him overpaid.

 

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 10 hours ago:

Sorry, HIM...I did not mean to imply that you called him an overpaid bum. Those were, in fact, my words. If I had broken down his numbers in more detail, it would show that in the first 6-7 games in 7 of his first 9 seasons, his output was almost nil, often with zero goals scored.

So anyone would call him overpaid.

 

The truth is, I am not ripping Tazer because I think he is a bad hockey player, I still believe he is top end talent in the league. In the past, the hawks had sharpie, saad, shaw, Brouwer, Bolland, Richards, Buff, Ladd to pick up the slack when needed, however due to salary cap constraints, due to players making a whooping 10.5 million the Hawks no longer have that luxury. In turn I was expecting Toews to pick up his game offensively and the results have not been there. Even on the PK he has been subpar, not pointing the finger directly at him, but he is the team leader and that means leading by example and I just have not seen it yet. 

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hawkinmontreal said on 1 hour ago:

The truth is, I am not ripping Tazer because I think he is a bad hockey player, I still believe he is top end talent in the league. In the past, the hawks had sharpie, saad, shaw, Brouwer, Bolland, Richards, Buff, Ladd to pick up the slack when needed, however due to salary cap constraints, due to players making a whooping 10.5 million the Hawks no longer have that luxury. In turn I was expecting Toews to pick up his game offensively and the results have not been there. Even on the PK he has been subpar, not pointing the finger directly at him, but he is the team leader and that means leading by example and I just have not seen it yet. 

I'm sorry, all due respect...but this is revisionist history you are writing here.

Toews and Kane..with their "whooping" 10.5 million dollar deals, have hardly cost the team the ability to maintain excellence. Not when they are consistently ranking in the top 3 in the reg over 9 seasons, and have Connies in 2 of the 3 Cups won.

Kane and Toews came off their ELCs and signed identical 5 year deals at 6.3 million from 2010-2014. Sharp was right there at 5.9 staring in 2011. Dallas still owes him that dough.

Bolland, Buff, and Versteeg were all at 3-3,5 million in 2010 cap dollars, due to the qualifying offer snafu at the time. Who screwed that pooch is another argument.

Then there's the 13 million dedicated to net with Khabby and Huet, with Campbell's  56 million linear cap killer added in the same day Huet was signed.

Oh yeah..you've gotta hang onto your 2 time Norris winner in DK (also a Connie winner), HJ...Seabs...and Craw, the "average" goalie who could have one at least one Connie himself.

Shaw is now a 4 million dollar player. Bolland got 5 million. Buff got 5 million. Ladd is now going to get 5.5 until he's 37. Brouwer got his. 

Chicago couldn't have afforded any of these guys,other than Shaw, or Richards, due to decisions when the Diamond Duo was at 6.3, and that is a fact proved by the gutting that actually happened.

What should have T&K done? Taken a bump from 6.3 to 8.5.....9?,,,,,,.for lifetime 8 year deals? The NHLPA would howl, and rightfully so. 

The 3 million saved buys you what? Not even Shaw, at todays prices.

 

 

 

 

 

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 40 minutes ago:

I'm sorry, all due respect...but this is revisionist history you are writing here.

Toews and Kane..with their "whooping" 10.5 million dollar deals, have hardly cost the team the ability to maintain excellence. Not when they are consistently ranking in the top 3 in the reg over 9 seasons, and have Connies in 2 of the 3 Cups won.

Kane and Toews came off their ELCs and signed identical 5 year deals at 6.3 million from 2010-2014. Sharp was right there at 5.9 staring in 2011. Dallas still owes him that dough.

Bolland, Buff, and Versteeg were all at 3-3,5 million in 2010 cap dollars, due to the qualifying offer snafu at the time. Who screwed that pooch is another argument.

Then there's the 13 million dedicated to net with Khabby and Huet, with Campbell's  56 million linear cap killer added in the same day Huet was signed.

Oh yeah..you've gotta hang onto your 2 time Norris winner in DK (also a Connie winner), HJ...Seabs...and Craw, the "average" goalie who could have one at least one Connie himself.

Shaw is now a 4 million dollar player. Bolland got 5 million. Buff got 5 million. Ladd is now going to get 5.5 until he's 37. Brouwer got his. 

Chicago couldn't have afforded any of these guys,other than Shaw, or Richards, due to decisions when the Diamond Duo was at 6.3, and that is a fact proved by the gutting that actually happened.

What should have T&K done? Taken a bump from 6.3 to 8.5.....9?,,,,,,.for lifetime 8 year deals? The NHLPA would howl, and rightfully so. 

The 3 million saved buys you what? Not even Shaw, at todays prices.

 

 

 

 

 

Eaxctly caddie, all the reason for the captain to pick up the pace. 3 assists is ridiculous, and yeah 3 million in saving is huge thats why the hawks sign guys for a million instead of a decent player at 4 because they never had the 3 million to begin with. To argue consistency, you are bringing up points when the played for 6.5 not 10.5 million and your saying there contracts have not taken away from the team maintaing success, last year they were just awesome and this year there even better but the team is maintaing its same success, sure thing caddie.

We can run around in circles all day, you have your opinion on him I have mine. 

I have not mentioned on thing about Kane, Hart trophy and most vaulable player in the league after a summer of nonsense and continues to be one of the most dangerous players in the league, earning his contract.Tazer=good at faceoffs, not earning his, plain and simple.

Edited by hawkinmontreal

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I rescindmy comments about changing the lines. I liked they way they played tonight. Maybe give a few more games.

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hawkinmontreal said on 15 hours ago:

Eaxctly caddie, all the reason for the captain to pick up the pace. 3 assists is ridiculous, and yeah 3 million in saving is huge thats why the hawks sign guys for a million instead of a decent player at 4 because they never had the 3 million to begin with. To argue consistency, you are bringing up points when the played for 6.5 not 10.5 million and your saying there contracts have not taken away from the team maintaing success, last year they were just awesome and this year there even better but the team is maintaing its same success, sure thing caddie.

We can run around in circles all day, you have your opinion on him I have mine. 

I have not mentioned on thing about Kane, Hart trophy and most vaulable player in the league after a summer of nonsense and continues to be one of the most dangerous players in the league, earning his contract.Tazer=good at faceoffs, not earning his, plain and simple.

I haven't posted in this thread until now because I've tried to stay out of everyone's way but I have a few questions and I ask them respectfully..........

Do you really consider Toews only good at faceoffs?

Is career average of 28 goals not earning his contract?

How do you compare his game to the only other multi cup winning,10M dollar center that the Hawks just soundly beat?

How do you compare the quality and consistency of the linemates 19 & 88 played with last year?  

What would you consider an acceptable,contract worthy campaign for Toews this year?

JT hasn't seemed like the same player we've become used to at times but haven't other great players gone through rough patches in the past? 

The two guys on NHLN last night said "Toews will get his cookies...he always does" and then went on to mention other great Hawks players as reasons that they'll once again make the post season,they called it "wash,rinse,repeat". Are these two guys blind Hawk homers?

Do you believe the Hawks will regret signing Toews to his last deal?

Cheers hm!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!   

 

Edited by hsbob
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hsbob said on 4 minutes ago:

I haven't posted in this thread until now because I've tried to stay out of everyone's way but I have a few questions and I ask them respectfully..........

Do you really consider Toews only good at faceoffs?

Is career average of 28 goals not earning his contract?

How do you compare his game to the only other multi cup winning,10M dollar center that the Hawks just soundly beat?

How do you compare the quality and consistency of the linemates 19 & 88 played with last year?  

What would you consider an acceptable,contract worthy campaign for Toews this year.

JT hasn't seemed like the same player we've become used to at times but haven't other great players gone through rough patches in the past? 

The two guys on NHLN last night said "Toews will get his cookies...he always does" and then went on to mention other great Hawks players as reasons that they'll once again make the post season,they called it "wash,rinse,repeat". Are these two guys blind Hawk homers?

Do you believe the Hawks will regret signing Toews to his last deal?

Cheers hm!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!   

 

Bob if your mentioning pther players around him not being the same, you are really saying his linemates made him better than he really is.

I cant predict the future for this team, and Tazer. Only time will tell.

Edited by hawkinmontreal

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hawkinmontreal said on 1 minute ago:

Bob if your mentioning pther players around him not being the same, you are really saying his linemates made him better than he really is.

I'm saying nothing of the sort!

Once again,Since you mentioned Kane's outstanding season....... how do you compare the quality and consistantcy of the linemates 19 & 88 played with last year?

Toews is expected to carry marginal linemates and Kane had to do nothing even close to that.....did he?

You said you have your opinion of Toews and you're entitled to that,I ask questions in an attempt to understand it. You chose not to answer any.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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JT was JT last night in the Kings game.  He was "the Glue" once again.  I'm sure having Kaner on his right side helped immensely.  Nevertheless, he was still on his game.  Did you see him on the PK?  He was the Hawks aggressor--finally somebody was doing this--toward the puck carrier and, predictably, did a marvelous job. 

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hsbob said on 1 hour ago:

I'm saying nothing of the sort!

Once again,Since you mentioned Kane's outstanding season....... how do you compare the quality and consistantcy of the linemates 19 & 88 played with last year?

Toews is expected to carry marginal linemates and Kane had to do nothing even close to that.....did he?

You said you have your opinion of Toews and you're entitled to that,I ask questions in an attempt to understand it. You chose not to answer any.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Ladd and Hossa are marginal players? 

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What other 1C would people like to have other than Jonathan Toews? I look around the league and I'm not sure I'd trade him for anyone else tbh. 

I guess I don't subscribe to the whole - he's not living up to his potential thing - cause I don't think Toews's game is to be a 85 point guy. I think its telling that his goals have been 28 for several seasons. He's consistent. He's a consistent force on both sides of the puck. He's a consistent leader in the room. He's consistently gonna get you over 20 goals and around 60-65 points. He's gonna be responsible defensively, he's gonna be good at the dot and he's gonna battle hard and more often than not he's gonna be that clutch player. That's been his game since he was young. There's a reason winning follows this kid around. 

He is absolutely not immune to criticism. But Kane makes the same money and he has 2 goals. Yes he has more points - but a lot of people are harping on goals. Kane had 1 more goal in the last post season and 1 more point.

I remember an interview where Kane was saying that Toews was working really hard at the ASG and people were coming to him like what's this kids deal - its the ASG why is he doing so much - and he was like - that's him. That's what he does. He just always works hard. lol. 

Anyone who wants to criticize the kid has a right. I'm sure he's just as hard on himself. But the data doesn't really back up some of it in my eyes in a lot of ways I guess. But that's just me. 

When the buzzer on game 82 hits and if he has 14 goals and 20 assists and didn't pull his weight and the Hawks miss the post season - I'll be the first one to criticize him. But he hasn't done anything up to this point to make me think that will be the case. The kid is 61 percent at the dot and he is captaining a team that is sitting in 3rd and 2 points out of first - which is where they've been around this time in seasons past. They came out of Oct with 12 points last year (having played 11 games) and they've come out with 11 points so far - all while having the worst PK in the league of all time. lol. 

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The guy's 28 and he's got a lake in Canada named after him.

I'm 55, and my claim to fame is.....oh, yeah, I don't have a claim to fame.

But seriously....when Toews and his agent sat down to discuss the deal that would keep him as here, as a cornerstone of a franchise that was irrelevant....that became the model for every other franchise in the city.. (due to no small measure, of the play of a man who took on Full Captaincy after a scant 64 games in the league).....does anyone believe they brought up his slow starts and tried to knock his price down?

Well if they did. I'm sure it was followed by a hearty chuckle.

I'm pretty sure they took a harder look at his 108 points in 124 playoff games, and who was making the players working against him on the ice, the coaches plotting against him behind the bench, and the GMs in the press boxes, all shake their heads , and say...damn...this guy just loves to win.

 

Edited by Icaddiedforstosh
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Icaddiedforstosh said on 16 minutes ago:

The guy's 28 and he's got a lake in Canada named after him.

I'm 55, and my claim to fame is.....oh, yeah, I don't have a claim to fame.

But seriously....when Toews and his agent sat down to discuss the deal that would keep him as here, as a cornerstone of a franchise that was irrelevant....that became the model for every other franchise in the city.. (due to no small measure, of the play of a man who took on Full Captaincy after a scant 64 games in the league).....does anyone believe they brought up his slow starts and tried to knock his price down?

Well if they did. I'm sure it was followed by a hearty chuckle.

I'm pretty sure they took a harder look at his 108 points in 124 playoff games, and who was making the players working against him on the ice, the coaches plotting against him behind the bench, and the GMs in the press boxes, all shake their heads , and say...damn...this guy just loves to win.

 

One of my favorite memories from the last Cup run was when Jon Cooper said he didn't tell whoever that he was in charge of guarding Toews about it before hand because he didn't want him to be freaked out that he was up against "Captain Everything". 

The kid isn't above reproach by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm just not sure Game 9 is enough time to say he's lost a step or not earning his pay for this season. And I'm not sure being at the same goal and less than 10 assists from his last few season total constitutes it for last season either. I think we all would have liked him and others to have found in the back of the net more consistently last season - but it wasn't a stand out season for anyone on the team other than the PAK line tbh. But they still finished better than the previous year, made the playoffs and made the Blues give everything they had to beat them. 

I'm 35 and my claim to fame is that I had an assist on Patrick Kane's 30th goal and therefore helped propel him to MVP status. Well in my mind our hand bump was an assist.. but it can be (falsely) disputed I guess. I still claim it. :P 

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hawkinmontreal said on 4 hours ago:

Ladd and Hossa are marginal players? 

I attempted to respectfully ask you a few questions to no avail,we have little left to discuss.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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hsbob said on 30 minutes ago:

I attempted to respectfully ask you a few questions to no avail,we have little left to discuss.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Bob, you wrote and I quote, Tazer is expected to carry marginal players and Kane is not, thats a load bull, and you know it. Even with the blender on high rotation Toews eventally had ladd and Hossa last season and nothing changed. 

You have your opinion and I have mine. We can leave it at that.

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hawkinmontreal said on 5 hours ago:

Ladd and Hossa are marginal players? 

Not to stick my nose in - but last season - which is the one a lot of people are looking at as his down / not earning his pay year - Hossa was a bit "marginal" compared to Hossa of old - or even just Hossa of the last few seasons. He had 13 goals and 20 helpers. He had the worst season of  his career if you don't count his debut. And it wasn't even close. Now Marian Hossa is a world class player without a doubt - but anyone on your wing shooting at less than 7 percent can be considered marginal - when one of the only things you failed to really do in comparison to to the last 2 seasons - was get more assists. His goals were the same, his shooting percentage was better last seaosn than the two previous, his face offs were higher than his two previous, his gooning was higher than his two previous. lol. (He can stop that whole fighting thing soon cause he's not good at it).  He took less shots and had a worse +/-  But his OTG winner and GWGs were more last season than the two previous. He had more PPGs and less PPPs but he also had more SHGs than the previous two years. 

Ladd - Depends on who you ask. lol. I've seen arguments both ways about him. 

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ATNBlackhawksFan said on 13 minutes ago:

Not to stick my nose in - but last season - which is the one a lot of people are looking at as his down / not earning his pay year - Hossa was a bit "marginal" compared to Hossa of old - or even just Hossa of the last few seasons. He had 13 goals and 20 helpers. He had the worst season of  his career if you don't count his debut. And it wasn't even close. Now Marian Hossa is a world class player without a doubt - but anyone on your wing shooting at less than 7 percent can be considered marginal - when one of the only things you failed to really do in comparison to to the last 2 seasons - was get more assists. His goals were the same, his shooting percentage was better last seaosn than the two previous, his face offs were higher than his two previous, his gooning was higher than his two previous. lol. (He can stop that whole fighting thing soon cause he's not good at it).  He took less shots and had a worse +/-  But his OTG winner and GWGs were more last season than the two previous. He had more PPGs and less PPPs but he also had more SHGs than the previous two years. 

Ladd - Depends on who you ask. lol. I've seen arguments both ways about him. 

In the same vein Sharp was pretty marginal in 2015 and yet Kane was on a scoring title trajectory before he broke his collar bone.

The issues I've had with Toews were with Toews proper.  Toews' weaker boardplay last year was not the result of Hossa being marginal and gassed nor the fault of the LW du jure.  Ditto with his ability to carry the team on his back.  He was also a factor in one of the worst Team D performances since 1989 (not the only factor and IMHO not the biggest).

That being said Toews had a monster night last night and I hope he keeps it up.

 

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I guess I'll just hold my breathe and wait for Jonathan Toews to win some thing of significance on an individual or team level

Until he does the slings and arrows are rightfully thrown at him.

I'm sure whoever introduces him at his HHOF induction will make a fine 8-10 minute speech crafted around his excellence at the dot.

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LordKOTL said on 49 minutes ago:

In the same vein Sharp was pretty marginal in 2015 and yet Kane was on a scoring title trajectory before he broke his collar bone.

The issues I've had with Toews were with Toews proper.  Toews' weaker boardplay last year was not the result of Hossa being marginal and gassed nor the fault of the LW du jure.  Ditto with his ability to carry the team on his back.  He was also a factor in one of the worst Team D performances since 1989 (not the only factor and IMHO not the biggest).

That being said Toews had a monster night last night and I hope he keeps it up.

 

And I respect all of those points. And I can understand them. And can actually agree with parts. But what you said is not, in my book, equivalent with him not earning his pay or having as down of a year as some are making it out to be. 

I'd also ask - why are we expecting him to carry the team on his back? Is that just because of his position as Captain or his salary? Is it cause he has in the past? I think he showed quite a few times carrying the team on his back in a sense of on the score board - he had quite a few OT game winners when even the PAK line couldn't find the back of the net in 60 minutes. But as many keep reiterating when someone speaks up on a players behalf - its a team sport. You can't win a Cup by yourself. There's more than one way to skin a possum (I'm from TN lol) and more than one way to carry a team on your back I'd argue. I think that kid has done it for this team in a lot of ways for a lot of years. As much as any other Captain in the league since 2009 - regular and post season. In many different, seeable and not so seeable ways. 

And I say all this respectfully and to not make it seem like I don't think you are entitled to your opinion Lord - cause you are someone who gives their opinions and points and while we may not agree, I respect that you stand by them.

And yes - I agree he had a better game last night. I think the team as a whole gelled better. Hopefully they will grow from it. But even if they take a step back - its refreshing to see that it can be done. lol. I finally got to watch it all today and there were some really good things done. Keith did some very Duncan Keith esque things and my heart soared. 

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hawkinmontreal said on 3 minutes ago:

Bob, you wrote and I quote, Tazer is expected to carry marginal players and Kane is not, thats a load bull, and you know it. Even with the blender on high rotation Toews eventally had ladd and Hossa last season and nothing changed. 

You have your opinion and I have mine. We can leave it at that.

He had Ladd for 16 games last year and he had Garbutt for probably just as many speaking of a load of bull!

The guy lost an outstanding winger and still potted 28,he had 8 fewer assists than normal because settin up Ryan Garbutt has a different outcome than settin up Brandon Saad.

Kane skated with one of the best young players in the league,doesn't kill,doesn't take FO's and plays little D......he shoulda had a better year!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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ATNBlackhawksFan said on 1 hour ago:

And I respect all of those points. And I can understand them. And can actually agree with parts. But what you said is not, in my book, equivalent with him not earning his pay or having as down of a year as some are making it out to be. 

I'd also ask - why are we expecting him to carry the team on his back? Is that just because of his position as Captain or his salary? Is it cause he has in the past? I think he showed quite a few times carrying the team on his back in a sense of on the score board - he had quite a few OT game winners when even the PAK line couldn't find the back of the net in 60 minutes. But as many keep reiterating when someone speaks up on a players behalf - its a team sport. You can't win a Cup by yourself. There's more than one way to skin a possum (I'm from TN lol) and more than one way to carry a team on your back I'd argue. I think that kid has done it for this team in a lot of ways for a lot of years. As much as any other Captain in the league since 2009 - regular and post season. In many different, seeable and not so seeable ways. 

And I say all this respectfully and to not make it seem like I don't think you are entitled to your opinion Lord - cause you are someone who gives their opinions and points and while we may not agree, I respect that you stand by them.

And yes - I agree he had a better game last night. I think the team as a whole gelled better. Hopefully they will grow from it. But even if they take a step back - its refreshing to see that it can be done. lol. I finally got to watch it all today and there were some really good things done. Keith did some very Duncan Keith esque things and my heart soared. 

IMHO part of the whole business of assigning a salary to a player is based on projection (especially for rookies), but also what they've done in the past, and up until 2016 Toews was the guy who could pick the team up, put them on his back, and carry his team to victory.  He also could play good D for a FWD, as well as the leadership role.  Since he's not (nor will ever be) the scoring machine Kane is (and let's be honest, Kane can't even sniff Toews' jock when it comes to playing on the defensive side of the puck), Toews 10.5M was based off his whole package of a guy who, like Kopitar, can basically do it all. 

To make a long story short, last year Toews wasn't that spearhead:  Kane, Panarin, and Crawford were.  Being gassed may have entered into it but in that same vein, the team won't go too far if the 'hawks are spending 10.5M on Captain Intangibles and not Captain Serious, who in the first 8-odd years of his career just had an incredible level of tenacity and seriously outworked his opposition.  The same goes for Kane--if Kane would have dropped off to something like 25 goals and 40 assists then yeah, he'd have a down year with respect to what earned him his 10.5.  Or, think Keith in 2011 where we expected the reigning Norris winner to spearhead the defensive effort and he ended up leading the league in turnovers--usually in bad outlet passes right to the opposition.

While I agree that you can't win a cup by yourself, in the same vein you have to be pulling on the rope at least somewhat as hard as your salary dictates.  Toews wasn't alone in that last year--being down from his salary expectation--and definitely wasn't the worst, but as one of the highest paid guys on the team coupled with being captain, he's gonna be in the spotlight more than, say Kruger.

And yes, Toews has done a butt-tonne for this team since 2009.  But if the team needs a Selke/Smythe-level Toews and doesn't get it, there's little comfort in what he did vs. how he's doing--and the same goes for every single core player, not just him.

Edited by LordKOTL
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LordKOTL said on 1 hour ago:

IMHO part of the whole business of assigning a salary to a player is based on projection (especially for rookies), but also what they've done in the past, and up until 2016 Toews was the guy who could pick the team up, put them on his back, and carry his team to victory.  He also could play good D for a FWD, as well as the leadership role.  Since he's not (nor will ever be) the scoring machine Kane is (and let's be honest, Kane can't even sniff Toews' jock when it comes to playing on the defensive side of the puck), Toews 10.5M was based off his whole package of a guy who, like Kopitar, can basically do it all. 

To make a long story short, last year Toews wasn't that spearhead:  Kane, Panarin, and Crawford were.  Being gassed may have entered into it but in that same vein, the team won't go too far if the 'hawks are spending 10.5M on Captain Intangibles and not Captain Serious, who in the first 8-odd years of his career just had an incredible level of tenacity and seriously outworked his opposition.  The same goes for Kane--if Kane would have dropped off to something like 25 goals and 40 assists then yeah, he'd have a down year with respect to what earned him his 10.5.  Or, think Keith in 2011 where we expected the reigning Norris winner to spearhead the defensive effort and he ended up leading the league in turnovers--usually in bad outlet passes right to the opposition.

While I agree that you can't win a cup by yourself, in the same vein you have to be pulling on the rope at least somewhat as hard as your salary dictates.  Toews wasn't alone in that last year--being down from his salary expectation--and definitely wasn't the worst, but as one of the highest paid guys on the team coupled with being captain, he's gonna be in the spotlight more than, say Kruger.

And yes, Toews has done a butt-tonne for this team since 2009.  But if the team needs a Selke/Smythe-level Toews and doesn't get it, there's little comfort in what he did vs. how he's doing--and the same goes for every single core player, not just him.

You go, Lord.  Well said and I agree. 

 

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dont fully agree with a couple of points but youre correct....it was a very well expressed post just the same.

Edited by galaxytrash

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hsbob said on 12 hours ago:

I haven't posted in this thread until now because I've tried to stay out of everyone's way but I have a few questions and I ask them respectfully..........

Do you really consider Toews only good at faceoffs? No I do not, he is exceptional 2 way hockey player.

Is career average of 28 goals not earning his contract? Not at 10.5million.

How do you compare his game to the only other multi cup winning,10M dollar center that the Hawks just soundly beat? Anze Kopitar is also a tremendous talent, and I believe Toews and Kopitar are on the same level, however I beleive Tazer is a better leader.

How do you compare the quality and consistency of the linemates 19 & 88 played with last year?  Kane has always played second fiddle to Toews when it came to linemates and always made it work, Tazers linemates last year were pretty brutal, but like I said Hosaa and Ladd were no slouches after the trade deadline and he still underperformed. In turn it was Kanes first real.season with a proper centermen. 

What would you consider an acceptable,contract worthy campaign for Toews this year? Toews contract is based on his past production to this team and as a result 10million is where he should be, however since he signed that 10.5million dollar contract his game is worth more like 5 million. 

JT hasn't seemed like the same player we've become used to at times but haven't other great players gone through rough patches in the past? Like who? Give me examples of those players, and tell me how much of there salary was contributed to losing other top end talent.

The two guys on NHLN last night said "Toews will get his cookies...he always does" and then went on to mention other great Hawks players as reasons that they'll once again make the post season,they called it "wash,rinse,repeat". Are these two guys blind Hawk homers? Jonathan Toews like Crosby are the faces of rhe NHL, far from homers but certainly wont critisize the leagues centerpeices. 

Do you believe the Hawks will regret signing Toews to his last deal? Possibly, possibly not. Wirtz is a business man, he wants championships in Chicago, regardless if Tazer is a HHOFamer or not, depends if the cap goes up and continues to or if it drops off. I cant speak foe the Hawks organization.

Cheers hm!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!   

 

I answered your questions Bob, respectfully. 

 

Cheers to you, 

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hawkinmontreal said on 1 hour ago:

I answered your questions Bob, respectfully. 

 

Cheers to you, 

Your new found disdain for Jonathan Toews is duely noted,along with your dire assessment of the team's chances this year. You sound like Toews and the Hawks owe you something...........they owe you nothing!

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!! 

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