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jacksalmon said on 5 hours ago:

Some posters here have suggested that the Hawk core can simply "turn on the switch", when necessary, and cruise to victory.  Those days, if they ever existed, are definitely over.  I think the rest of the league has caught up with them and their weak support players, so that will never happen.  The core is not good enough to win without quality support.  Hopefully, for them, the support players will improve enough over the year to allow the core to again win, if they themselves start playing better. 

The "flip the switch" mantra was nothing more than fans expressing their angst over not winning every game, board battle, faceoff, etc...down the stretch, heading into the playoffs.

Looking back at the last 5 seasons, I think it's fair to check where the team was around the middle of March...where you have 10-12 games left and pretty much know where your playoff slot will be,

And looking at it, the idea that the "flipping the switch" days existed...but meant little,

Chicago's record mid -March going back 5 years.

20011-12   39-25-8

2012-13     23-2-3

2013-14    39-15-14

2014-15   42-21-6

2015-16   41-24-6

Final games won over those 5 seasons....45....36 (out of 47)....46...48....47

Pretty consistent

Past output: 2 Cups, game 7 OT loss in the WCF, two first round game 7 losses against quality opponents 

This year?  Hard to say. It's late October, not mid-March 

 

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 10 minutes ago:

The "flip the switch" mantra was nothing more than fans expressing their angst over not winning every game, board battle, faceoff, etc...down the stretch, heading into the playoffs.

Looking back at the last 5 seasons, I think it's fair to check where the team was around the middle of March...where you have 10-12 games left and pretty much know where your playoff slot will be,

And looking at it, the idea that the "flipping the switch" days existed...but meant little,

Chicago's record mid -March going back 5 years.

20011-12   39-25-8

2012-13     23-2-3

2013-14    39-15-14

2014-15   42-21-6

2015-16   41-24-6

Final games won over those 5 seasons....45....36 (out of 47)....46...48....47

Pretty consistent

Past output: 2 Cups, game 7 OT loss in the WCF, two first round game 7 losses against quality opponents 

This year?  Hard to say. It's late October, not mid-March 

 

 
 

The voice of reason and still keeping the madhouse calm...wassup Caddie?

Edited by ROB315
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Icaddiedforstosh said on 1 hour ago:

The "flip the switch" mantra was nothing more than fans expressing their angst over not winning every game, board battle, faceoff, etc...down the stretch, heading into the playoffs.

Looking back at the last 5 seasons, I think it's fair to check where the team was around the middle of March...where you have 10-12 games left and pretty much know where your playoff slot will be,

And looking at it, the idea that the "flipping the switch" days existed...but meant little,

Chicago's record mid -March going back 5 years.

20011-12   39-25-8

2012-13     23-2-3

2013-14    39-15-14

2014-15   42-21-6

2015-16   41-24-6

Final games won over those 5 seasons....45....36 (out of 47)....46...48....47

Pretty consistent

Past output: 2 Cups, game 7 OT loss in the WCF, two first round game 7 losses against quality opponents 

This year?  Hard to say. It's late October, not mid-March 

 

To me, "flip the switch" meant that quality, motivated, skilled players decided to play extra hard in particular games.  That happens in every sport.  But, in order to "flip the switch", a team, more often than not, must have quality players whose skill level is at least on par, or better, than the opponent.  The Chicago Bears could not flip the switch against the Patriots/Seahawks. 

The Hawks had that skill level during the years you mentioned.  They are missing quite a few quality players who posses that level of skill now, so I don't know if the core alone can 'flip the switch" this year.  But, if their support players start improving their skills and carry a reasonable load, the core might be able to carry the day. 

So far, it is not happening, but the good news is that even though they don't look very good, they are only 2 points out of the lead in the Central. 

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LordKOTL said on 5 hours ago:

The problem is not the support players, it's the core.  They're the ones who have played like congealed buttsweat this season.

Yes, I agree, but many here think that the core will break out of its funk and return to normal playing levels, which are quite good.  If that happens, I am still not sure yet whether the "support players" have enough skill like the "support players" of the recent past, to put a dominant team on the ice. 

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jacksalmon said on 12 minutes ago:

Yes, I agree, but many here think that the core will break out of its funk and return to normal playing levels, which are quite good.  If that happens, I am still not sure yet whether the "support players" have enough skill like the "support players" of the recent past, to put a dominant team on the ice. 

 

I believe the support talent as it gains some experience should be better than ever.

The bottom pairing on defence with the two rookies and the addition of Campbell has never been this good.   Guys like Panik, Motte and Schmaltz might already be more useful than Shaw, Versteeg and Teravainen were two years ago.   Rasmussen could be the best fourth line winger the team has used in many years (since the 2013 version of Brian Bickell).  Panarin and Anisimov certainly are more than adequate fill-ins for Sharp and Vermette from 2015.   I see Tootoo as a big upgrade on the enforcer job provided in the past by the likes of Bollig and Mashinter.

There will be room for more additions at the deadline (to fill the secondary scoring provided at one time by Brad Richards and Andrew Ladd).

It is true that Hossa and Seabrook are both a step or two slower (though Kane is better than ever).   Toews might not be consistently the same player as he was in 2013 (though he is still pretty good).  Keith might no longer be a Norris trophy candidate (though Hammer might be better than he was two years ago).    In balance, I don't see a big dropoff in the core happening quite just yet.

Once the elite guys rediscover their games and make the adjustments, we should see an entirely new team.   I expect a nice run next spring.   

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jacksalmon said on 1 hour ago:

To me, "flip the switch" meant that quality, motivated, skilled players decided to play extra hard in particular games.  That happens in every sport.  But, in order to "flip the switch", a team, more often than not, must have quality players whose skill level is at least on par, or better, than the opponent.  The Chicago Bears could not flip the switch against the Patriots/Seahawks. 

The Hawks had that skill level during the years you mentioned.  They are missing quite a few quality players who posses that level of skill now, so I don't know if the core alone can 'flip the switch" this year.  But, if their support players start improving their skills and carry a reasonable load, the core might be able to carry the day. 

So far, it is not happening, but the good news is that even though they don't look very good, they are only 2 points out of the lead in the Central. 

If you're not in the Passive/Aggressive Hall of Fame, well that's a crime.

"It might be this, It might be that"

"It could be this, or maybe not"

"In another sport, this might be what I mean"

"I'm not sure about anything about this Hawk team, I just know I've said a lot of things that might or might not come true."

Time will tell  "i said so" is covered  front,back, and sideways

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today practice :

Panik-Toews-Kane
Panarin-Anisimov-Hossa
Motte-Schmaltz-Hartman
Rasmussen-Kruger-Tootoo

a way to push Toews..... Also Hossa doesn't score, Panarin is elite scorer, Anisimov can hit the net too, Hossa puck possession elite, can deliver pucks.I like these changes...

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^ Yes, good idea. You have to jump start both Toews and Hossa, so breaking up the second line is the only option. I just hope that third line doesn't get utterly owned.

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Granada said on 1 hour ago:

^ Yes, good idea. You have to jump start both Toews and Hossa, so breaking up the second line is the only option. I just hope that third line doesn't get utterly owned.

It's worth a shot, though.  It's early in the year and there's plenty of time to break it or any of the lines up if they fail as miserably as our penalty kill.

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Modry-Jazyk said on 5 hours ago:

today practice :

Panik-Toews-Kane
Panarin-Anisimov-Hossa
Motte-Schmaltz-Hartman
Rasmussen-Kruger-Tootoo

a way to push Toews..... Also Hossa doesn't score, Panarin is elite scorer, Anisimov can hit the net too, Hossa puck possession elite, can deliver pucks.I like these changes...

That third line scares the hell out of me.

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hawkinmontreal said on 30 minutes ago:

That third line scares the hell out of me.

I was just about to say, I do like the top 2 lines. But that 3rd line, full of rookies, is incredibly scary. 

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MERPER said on 43 minutes ago:

I was just about to say, I do like the top 2 lines. But that 3rd line, full of rookies, is incredibly scary. 

Not only incredibly scary, but undisiplined as well. Motte has taken a few queationable calls this season combined that with Hartman and Smaltz ouch, Q will have the blender on max.

I know Desi is not a top end talent but he will ceetainly help balance the bottom 6. 

Edited by hawkinmontreal
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My guess -

If the coach is loading up line one, the intention will be to play them close to half the game.

The third line will play no more than three or four shifts together all night, and none after the first period.  

Kruger will start centring both the third and fourth lines after period one (and these two bottom lines will rotate in once every six shifts or so).   Schmaltz will sub in a couple of times a period to spell one of the top six guys.

 

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Icaddiedforstosh said on On 10/26/2016 at 4:59 PM:

If you're not in the Passive/Aggressive Hall of Fame, well that's a crime.

"It might be this, It might be that"

"It could be this, or maybe not"

"In another sport, this might be what I mean"

"I'm not sure about anything about this Hawk team, I just know I've said a lot of things that might or might not come true."

Time will tell  "i said so" is covered  front,back, and sideways

What you view as Passive/Agressive comments were meant by myself to only illustrate the question marks facing this team.  I have no need to be Passive/Agressive.  If I think that someone or some situation sucks, I will let you know directly without beating around the bush.  

If you are certain of the team's success; and have no doubts and questions, then good for you.  I really don't claim to know how this team will turn out, although I hope for the best for them.  I am just not as smart as you are to know everything and never have any uncertainty about a situation.  Too bad for me.  It must be nice to always be right and know the future. 

Edited by jacksalmon
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I like the lines except for Line #3.  Kruger, as bad as he's been, needs to eventually (SOON!) return to Third Line Center on this squad.  Otherwise, Line #3 is scary.

Optimistically, we have two scoring lines instead of just one and that's huge.  Only the Anaheim Ducks can get away with just one line.

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Didn't think kane helped 19 much tonight, tbh. I also thought Panik looks better at rw. I'd move Hossa back to the top line, maybe let Panik move down to the third line. 

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vadarx said on 9 hours ago:

Didn't think kane helped 19 much tonight, tbh. I also thought Panik looks better at rw. I'd move Hossa back to the top line, maybe let Panik move down to the third line. 

So is this the fault of Kane? How many players have been given the chance to play with Toews and it just doesnt work, at some point someone might want to think about the fact it aint rhe players around him its actially the player itself. 

Maybe moving Toews to the third line would be a better option. He is a major dissapointment thus far to begin the season.

Edited by hawkinmontreal

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hawkinmontreal said on 2 hours ago:

So is this the fault of Kane? How many players have been given the chance to play with Toews and it just doesnt work, at some point someone might want to think about the fact it aint rhe players around him its actially the player itself. 

Maybe moving Toews to the third line would be a better option. He is a major dissapointment thus far to begin the season.

Moving Toews to the 3rd line is a bit extreme, IMO. Good Luck winning face offs with the alternatives getting top-six minutes,

And there's the idea that Toews can't get out of his own way, for at least the first 7-8-9 games every year...fact is, that can't be disputed. And yeah, he's off to the rockiest start in what is now his 10th season, with zero goals and a mere 3 assists in 8 games. But it's always been "what's wrong with Toews", 7-8-9 games in every year.

Again, there's merit there...but what about looking at his Octobers in full? What do the numbers really say? I took a look at his production in October since his career launched.

2007-08   10GP   5G  4A  9 points

2008-09   10GP   0G  6A   6 points

2009-10   9GP     1G  5A   6 points

2010-11   13GP   3G  6A   9 points

2011-12    11GP   4G  3A   7 points

2012-13    7GP     4G  3A   7 points

2013-14   13GP    7G   6A   13 points

2014-15   10GP    4G   4A    8 points

2015-16   11 GP   4G   3A    7 points

2016-17    8GP     0G   3A    3 points  (one game left in the month)

So what is the reality?  At games 6-7 Toews appears to be an overpaid bum (at 10.5 milli, recently).... give him 4 -5 more games and he's at .76 PPG...give him the rest of a season, and yeah, he'll be streaky, but he'll be at .89 PPG .....year in, year out.

Bagging on Jonathan Toews early in a season is easy to do but it's not definitive  

 

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vadarx said on 13 hours ago:

Didn't think kane helped 19 much tonight, tbh. I also thought Panik looks better at rw. I'd move Hossa back to the top line, maybe let Panik move down to the third line. 

 

hawkinmontreal said on 3 hours ago:

So is this the fault of Kane? How many players have been given the chance to play with Toews and it just doesnt work, at some point someone might want to think about the fact it aint rhe players around him its actially the player itself. 

Maybe moving Toews to the third line would be a better option. He is a major dissapointment thus far to begin the season.

stats are looking good, see my post in YBTGM thread  :

 

Edited by Modry-Jazyk
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hawkinmontreal said on 3 hours ago:

So is this the fault of Kane? How many players have been given the chance to play with Toews and it just doesnt work, at some point someone might want to think about the fact it aint rhe players around him its actially the player itself. 

Maybe moving Toews to the third line would be a better option. He is a major dissapointment thus far to begin the season.

I didn't say it was kane's fault, just that it didn't seem like it made much of a difference. I'd rather see kane and panarin together. And Toews is already on the second line, imo. 

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 19 minutes ago:

Moving Toews to the 3rd line is a bit extreme, IMO. Good Luck winning face offs with the alternatives getting top-six minutes,

And there's the idea that Toews can't get out of his own way, for at least the first 7-8-9 games every year...fact is, that can't be disputed. And yeah, he's off to the rockiest start in what is now his 10th season, with zero goals and a mere 3 assists in 8 games. But it's always been "what's wrong with Toews", 7-8-9 games in every year.

Again, there's merit there...but what about looking at his Octobers in full? What do the numbers really say? I took a look at his production in October since his career launched.

2007-08   10GP   5G  4A  9 points

2008-09   10GP   0G  6A   6 points

2009-10   9GP     1G  5A   6 points

2010-11   13GP   3G  6A   9 points

2011-12    11GP   4G  3A   7 points

2012-13    7GP     4G  3A   7 points

2013-14   13GP    7G   6A   13 points

2014-15   10GP    4G   4A    8 points

2015-16   11 GP   4G   3A    7 points

2016-17    8GP     0G   3A    3 points  (one game left in the month)

So what is the reality?  At games 6-7 Toews appears to be an overpaid bum (at 10.5 milli, recently).... give him 4 -5 more games and he's at .76 PPG...give him the rest of a season, and yeah, he'll be streaky, but he'll be at .89 PPG .....year in, year out.

Bagging on Jonathan Toews early in a season is easy to do but it's not definitive  

 

Yep. And done every season here the past few seasons. Thus y I'll wait another month to worry about his production. 

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 2 hours ago:

Moving Toews to the 3rd line is a bit extreme, IMO. Good Luck winning face offs with the alternatives getting top-six minutes,

And there's the idea that Toews can't get out of his own way, for at least the first 7-8-9 games every year...fact is, that can't be disputed. And yeah, he's off to the rockiest start in what is now his 10th season, with zero goals and a mere 3 assists in 8 games. But it's always been "what's wrong with Toews", 7-8-9 games in every year.

Again, there's merit there...but what about looking at his Octobers in full? What do the numbers really say? I took a look at his production in October since his career launched.

2007-08   10GP   5G  4A  9 points

2008-09   10GP   0G  6A   6 points

2009-10   9GP     1G  5A   6 points

2010-11   13GP   3G  6A   9 points

2011-12    11GP   4G  3A   7 points

2012-13    7GP     4G  3A   7 points

2013-14   13GP    7G   6A   13 points

2014-15   10GP    4G   4A    8 points

2015-16   11 GP   4G   3A    7 points

2016-17    8GP     0G   3A    3 points  (one game left in the month)

So what is the reality?  At games 6-7 Toews appears to be an overpaid bum (at 10.5 milli, recently).... give him 4 -5 more games and he's at .76 PPG...give him the rest of a season, and yeah, he'll be streaky, but he'll be at .89 PPG .....year in, year out.

Bagging on Jonathan Toews early in a season is easy to do but it's not definitive  

 

Yeah caddie, thats exactly it,  he is an overpaid bum, you nailed that one. Thats exactly what I said. 

 

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hawkinmontreal said on Just now:

Yeah caddie, thats exactly it,  he is an overpaid bum, you nailed that one. Thats exactly what I said. 

The truth is Jonathan Toews has not been very good for a while now, not very good last year, not very good in the playoffs versus the Blues and has pretty much layed a egg thus far this season. 

 

 

 

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