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Toews

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Here we go, here is a place where we can all vent about how annoyed, disappointed, angry, etc we are with the Captain, so as not to derail threads about other players. 

 

I'll start: we need more from him this season than ever due to the youth on the team. However, I for one will wait until much later in the season to be concerned about it as he literally starts the same way EVERY season. 

 

Ok now ya'll go. 

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Hopefully after finally finding the back of the net in the shootout it'll give him some confidence and he starts scoring again. 

2 assists after 6gms is pathetic for a guy making 10.5mill. After the World Cup I thought for sure he wouldn't have one of his notorious slow starts, guess not. 

Kruger has more goals, pretty sad. 

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Toews start to the season is disappointing any way you slice it, and just because he has started slow in the past holds no water to me when you make the coin he does. Patrick Kane, since getting paid, has elevated his game into another stratosphere, it is not unreasonable to expect at least some bump in Toews game...especially since he is entering his prime. 

Having said all of that, while Panik has been great, the way the lineup is currently constructed is doing him no favors either. I would like to see Panarin and Motte swapped, giving Toews a legit elite flank. Kane will produce regardless and AA is on top of his offensive game so far this season easing that change. 

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vadarx said on 2 hours ago:

Here we go, here is a place where we can all vent about how annoyed, disappointed, angry, etc we are with the Captain, so as not to derail threads about other players. 

 

I'll start: we need more from him this season than ever due to the youth on the team. However, I for one will wait until much later in the season to be concerned about it as he literally starts the same way EVERY season. 

 

Ok now ya'll go. 

it is 6 games into the season and folks are mad that we picked this season to suck so badly that we will get the number 1 draft pick which isn't going to be as good as McJesus and the future of USA hockey - Auston Matthews.  Are you surprised? lol. 

Toews is a notoriously slow starter - which is funny considering the kid scored his first goal on his first shot in his first shift in his first game. 

But I agree - he's going to have to step it up. But he usually does. He's been holding serve at 28 goals for several seasons - slow starts and all. I'll let the kid actually fail before I complain about him failing. A lot of people had Crosby over and done last season when he had this slowest start of his career - and that kid is an actual goal/point scoring beast - unlike Jonny - who isn't going to ever be an Art Ross candidate. 

 

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There's a lot of speculation and opinions that Toews is not earning his high-end contract, and more is expected of him, given his price point.

If you want to base that on his regular season output...a case can be made. Why would anyone commit 10 million a year to a guy who's best year tops out at 76 points, even with everything else he brings, (Leadership, always a Selke candidate, FO %...etc....I get it.) He'll probably never win a Hart of Ross based on regular season play.

That said...he brings it when it counts, Toews is a playoff animal. Much like Kane, he shines when the lights are brightest.  And the second season is the only season. That's true when measuring greatness in any team sport.

When the Hawks went down to the Wings in 5 games in the WCF, Toews scored 13 points in 17 games (7 goals, 6 assists)

When they won the Cup in 2010, he scored a mere 7 goals in 22 games. But he also had 22 assists in 22 games. 29 points in 22 playoff games. A Connie well earned.

Two first round exits after the team was gutted due to the cap. 8 points over 13 games.  Those teams were being re-built on the fly.

They won in 2013 "despite" Toews...3 goals, 11 assists for 14 points...over 23 games. This is his down playoff year. Raised a Cup

Lost in game 7, WCF to the Kings in 14...Toews had 9 goals and 8 assists, 17 points in 19 games

Then there's the 15 Cup win.  21 points in 23 games. 10 goals, 11 assists.  And it was Toews who scored 2 goals in 72 seconds that tied game 5. All anyone remembers is Bickell's gaffe that cost that game. The reality is, Freddy Anderson fell apart after Toews torched him with those 2 late markers. 

The Hawks out-scored the Ducks 10-5 in games 6 and 7. Toews did nothing in game 6, score-sheet wise. But he was 83% at the dot the night Chicago beat the Ducks easily, 5-2. Toews was a big part of that win,

Game 7, on the road. Toews scores 2 first period goals. 2-0 Chicago, Freddy is done like dinner.

I know posters get sick of Toews geting support banked against his cap hit.  But he has significant value when the games really count

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Icaddiedforstosh
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He has done more than we could ever have hoped for since becoming a Hawk and making the team the best in the NHL. As fans we want more cups and since he's getting paid what he is there will be extra pressure on him to put the puck in the net and elevate the play of his teammates. Thats just the way it is and the critisism comes with the high salary and expectations. We are all hoping he once again raises his level of play and that of the Hawks and brings home another cup or two before this crazy ride ends

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 2 hours ago:

There's a lot of speculation and opinions that Toews is not earning his high-end contract, and more is expected of him, given his price point.

If you want to base that on his regular season output...a case can be made. Why would anyone commit 10 million a year to a guy who's best year tops out at 76 points, even with everything else he brings, (Leadership, always a Selke candidate, FO %...etc....I get it.) He'll probably never win a Hart of Ross based on regular season play.

That said...he brings it when it counts, Toews is a playoff animal. Much like Kane, he shines when the lights are brightest.  And the second season is the only season. That's true when measuring greatness in any team sport.

When the Hawks went down to the Wings in 5 games in the WCF, Toews scored 13 points in 17 games (7 goals, 6 assists)

When they won the Cup in 2010, he scored a mere 7 goals in 22 games. But he also had 22 assists in 22 games. 29 points in 22 playoff games. A Connie well earned.

Two first round exits after the team was gutted due to the cap. 8 points over 13 games.  Those teams were being re-built on the fly.

They won in 2013 "despite" Toews...3 goals, 11 assists for 14 points...over 23 games. This is his down playoff year. Raised a Cup

Lost in game 7, WCF to the Kings in 14...Toews had 9 goals and 8 assists, 17 points in 19 games

Then there's the 15 Cup win.  21 points in 23 games. 10 goals, 11 assists.  And it was Toews who scored 2 goals in 72 seconds that tied game 5. All anyone remembers is Bickell's gaffe that cost that game. The reality is, Freddy Anderson fell apart after Toews torched him with those 2 late markers. 

The Hawks out-scored the Ducks 10-5 in games 6 and 7. Toews did nothing in game 6, score-sheet wise. But he was 83% at the dot the night Chicago beat the Ducks easily, 5-2. Toews was a big part of that win,

Game 7, on the road. Toews scores 2 first period goals. 2-0 Chicago, Freddy is done like dinner.

I know posters get sick of Toews geting support banked against his cap hit.  But he has significant value when the games really count

 

 

 

 

 

All that's well and good and probably factual - but it's 6 games in and he only has a SO goal. lol.

But in all seriousness - spot on Caddie. 

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vadarx said on 11 hours ago:

Here we go, here is a place where we can all vent about how annoyed, disappointed, angry, etc we are with the Captain, so as not to derail threads about other players. 

 

I'll start: we need more from him this season than ever due to the youth on the team. However, I for one will wait until much later in the season to be concerned about it as he literally starts the same way EVERY season. 

 

Ok now ya'll go. 

I agree with you on both points. 

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Toews has been my favorite player since the day he was drafted but for the first time I am really starting to be disappointed in him and question his contract.

I know, I know. I am the supremely negative fan who goes overboard... and it's only 7 games into the season... but... 2 points... 0 goals... part of the worst PK in history through 7 games... and what's worse is that I just don't see the attack in him on offense. Very few shots on goal, or creating opportunities. 

This team needs him to score and play well on defense. In worst case scenarios, do one or the other exceptionally well while the other side of his game struggles. Right now he's doing neither at a level we need him to be playing at.

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Icaddiedforstosh said on On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 6:09 PM:

There's a lot of speculation and opinions that Toews is not earning his high-end contract, and more is expected of him, given his price point.

If you want to base that on his regular season output...a case can be made. Why would anyone commit 10 million a year to a guy who's best year tops out at 76 points, even with everything else he brings, (Leadership, always a Selke candidate, FO %...etc....I get it.) He'll probably never win a Hart of Ross based on regular season play.

That said...he brings it when it counts, Toews is a playoff animal. Much like Kane, he shines when the lights are brightest.  And the second season is the only season. That's true when measuring greatness in any team sport.

When the Hawks went down to the Wings in 5 games in the WCF, Toews scored 13 points in 17 games (7 goals, 6 assists)

When they won the Cup in 2010, he scored a mere 7 goals in 22 games. But he also had 22 assists in 22 games. 29 points in 22 playoff games. A Connie well earned.

Two first round exits after the team was gutted due to the cap. 8 points over 13 games.  Those teams were being re-built on the fly.

They won in 2013 "despite" Toews...3 goals, 11 assists for 14 points...over 23 games. This is his down playoff year. Raised a Cup

Lost in game 7, WCF to the Kings in 14...Toews had 9 goals and 8 assists, 17 points in 19 games

Then there's the 15 Cup win.  21 points in 23 games. 10 goals, 11 assists.  And it was Toews who scored 2 goals in 72 seconds that tied game 5. All anyone remembers is Bickell's gaffe that cost that game. The reality is, Freddy Anderson fell apart after Toews torched him with those 2 late markers. 

The Hawks out-scored the Ducks 10-5 in games 6 and 7. Toews did nothing in game 6, score-sheet wise. But he was 83% at the dot the night Chicago beat the Ducks easily, 5-2. Toews was a big part of that win,

Game 7, on the road. Toews scores 2 first period goals. 2-0 Chicago, Freddy is done like dinner.

I know posters get sick of Toews geting support banked against his cap hit.  But he has significant value when the games really count

 

 

 

 

 

You kinda missed last year's playoff performance where he was a complete No-show.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have to be a smeggin' imbecile to *not* sign Toews to his 10.5M deal at the time, but right now he needs to steal his sweater back from Arkhipov and step it up.

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LordKOTL said on 58 minutes ago:

You kinda missed last year's playoff performance where he was a complete No-show.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have to be a smeggin' imbecile to *not* sign Toews to his 10.5M deal at the time, but right now he needs to steal his sweater back from Arkhipov and step it up.

I'll agree he failed to score a single goal in the series. That certainly would have helped.

He did score 6 points. Kane and AP led the way with 7.

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We can talk about his past til we are blue in the face but this is the present and the present is showing he is just not playing well. Being the captain and one of the best players in the game his leadership that he has shown in the past is MIA.

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Creature1958 said on 2 hours ago:

We can talk about his past til we are blue in the face but this is the present and the present is showing he is just not playing well. Being the captain and one of the best players in the game his leadership that he has shown in the past is MIA.

I agree. We very much need his leadership and I hope he can quickly turn things around.

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Toews is still the captain who makes it happen. The team is going through a transition and he is the right guy to bring the team together. On the face of it Panik is playing very well on the first line, six goals and one from Hossa nearly equals the goals scored by Kane, AA, and Panarin. Let's give the team time to jell. Toews is going to make a difference. He always does. 

 

 

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None of the veteran guys have played well to start the season.    Toews is in a real slump, especially defensively, but so are Seabrook and Keith and Kruger among others.   When a team's best players are not pulling in the right direction, it won't win very often. 

Still, despite this poor start, I'm actually quite excited and encouraged. Call me a pollyanna if you want to, but I see the team playing at a .500 clip while breaking in five rookies.

I've seen enough from Panik to believe that he is a legitimate NHL talent.   Motte was not good yesterday, but in the other games he has been terrific.   Forsling obviously can play and so can Kempney.    Schmaltz looks a ways away, but Hartman clearly is ready.  

It also looks like Hossa and Campbell both still have some game in the tank which I certainly wasn't counting on.  I am excited to see what this team can do when the big horses shake off the early season cobwebs and get focussed.   They will.   Toews and Kane are still in the prime of their careers.   Seabrook and Keith are not that old yet.   

I see a team with better depth right now than any roster since 2013 (or perhaps even 2010).   The rookies need another 10-15 games to get properly acclimatized but as a group, they are much more talented than many of the rosters we have seen in recent years.

The boys have been losing games because of their special-team play (which is almost exclusively the responsibility of the core players).   These problems can be fixed.  The coaching staff have the talent here to turn this team around quickly.   The roster is much better than their present record indicates.

Edited by mvr
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mvr said on 14 minutes ago:

None of the veteran guys have played well to start the season.    Toews is in a real slump, especially defensively, but so are Seabrook and Keith and Kruger among others.   When a team's best players are not pulling in the right direction, it won't win very often. 

Still, despite this poor start, I'm actually quite excited and encouraged. Call me a pollyanna if you want to, but I see the team playing at a .500 clip while breaking in five rookies.

I've seen enough from Panik to believe that he is a legitimate NHL talent.   Motte was not good yesterday, but in the other games he has been terrific.   Forsberg obviously can play and so can Kempney.    Schmaltz looks a ways away, but Hartman clearly is ready.  

It also looks like Hossa and Campbell both still have some game in the tank which I certainly wasn't counting on.  I am excited to see what this team can do when the big horses shake off the early season cobwebs and get focussed.   They will.   Toews and Kane are still in the prime of their careers.   Seabrook and Keith are not that old yet.   

I see a team with better depth right now than any roster since 2013 (or perhaps even 2010).   The rookies need another 10-15 games to get properly acclimatized but as a group, they are much more talented than many of the rosters we have seen in recent years.

The boys have been losing games because of their special-team play (which is almost exclusively the responsibility of the core players).   These problems can be fixed.  The coaching staff have the talent here to turn this team around quickly.   The roster is much better than their present record indicates.

I love your optimism MVR, but watching the core play the way they are makes me wonder are they losing faith in the coaching staff is the core tuning them out. I know a slump could be very possible but the entire core at the exact time slumping doesnt seem right. 

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hawkinmontreal said on Just now:

I love your optimism MVR, but watching the core play the way they are makes me wonder are they losing faith in the coaching staff is the core tuning them out. I know a slump could be very possible but the entire core at the exact time slumping doesnt seem right. 

The preseason was short.   Most of the core guys did not play more than one or two games.   Toews did not play at all.   Keith is still working through some off season issues.

I am not worried about them.   I am thrilled with what we are seeing from some of the young guys.   I do see some lethargy and lack of effort from the veterans.   They will need to focus soon.    These early games might lack meaning to them right now, but they don't want to fall too far back before righting the boat.

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Creature1958 said on 8 hours ago:

We can talk about his past til we are blue in the face but this is the present and the present is showing he is just not playing well. Being the captain and one of the best players in the game his leadership that he has shown in the past is MIA.

True, the past means nothing to fans, other than for bragging rights or to re-live bitter disappointments.

To a player and his agent, the past is his most effective (and only, really) negotiating tool.

Toews didn't get paid because he looks good in the uniform.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

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mvr said on 1 hour ago:

The preseason was short.   Most of the core guys did not play more than one or two games.   Toews did not play at all.   Keith is still working through some off season issues.

I am not worried about them.   I am thrilled with what we are seeing from some of the young guys.   I do see some lethargy and lack of effort from the veterans.   They will need to focus soon.    These early games might lack meaning to them right now, but they don't want to fall too far back before righting the boat.

We will just have to wait and see, but the Hawks need to get it together sooner than later.

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Greenfeather said on 6 hours ago:

Toews is still the captain who makes it happen. The team is going through a transition and he is the right guy to bring the team together. On the face of it Panik is playing very well on the first line, six goals and one from Hossa nearly equals the goals scored by Kane, AA, and Panarin. Let's give the team time to jell. Toews is going to make a difference. He always does. 

 

 

 

mvr said on 3 hours ago:

None of the veteran guys have played well to start the season.    Toews is in a real slump, especially defensively, but so are Seabrook and Keith and Kruger among others.   When a team's best players are not pulling in the right direction, it won't win very often. 

Still, despite this poor start, I'm actually quite excited and encouraged. Call me a pollyanna if you want to, but I see the team playing at a .500 clip while breaking in five rookies.

I've seen enough from Panik to believe that he is a legitimate NHL talent.   Motte was not good yesterday, but in the other games he has been terrific.   Forsling obviously can play and so can Kempney.    Schmaltz looks a ways away, but Hartman clearly is ready.  

It also looks like Hossa and Campbell both still have some game in the tank which I certainly wasn't counting on.  I am excited to see what this team can do when the big horses shake off the early season cobwebs and get focussed.   They will.   Toews and Kane are still in the prime of their careers.   Seabrook and Keith are not that old yet.   

I see a team with better depth right now than any roster since 2013 (or perhaps even 2010).   The rookies need another 10-15 games to get properly acclimatized but as a group, they are much more talented than many of the rosters we have seen in recent years.

The boys have been losing games because of their special-team play (which is almost exclusively the responsibility of the core players).   These problems can be fixed.  The coaching staff have the talent here to turn this team around quickly.   The roster is much better than their present record indicates.

It may well be that the team looks like crap because it is in a transition phase and it will take some time to get all on the same page.  I am not so sure of the quality of some of these rookies, but they could improve.  My concern is that most of the team does not look that excited or motivated.  I am judging that by the fact more than one announcer has said that the opponent has been dominating the Hawks.  There is no reason for that, if all are motivated and busting their butts.  Although, if they are not gelling because of the failure to play as a unit so far, it could give that appearance and they would be dominated.  Still, it is very puzzling to me because I expected a motivated, enthusiastic core after their early out last year.  Oh well, we may know more with 10 more games. 

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I'm with ya, mvr. This team's youngsters, I like. The vets on the team look like they think it's 2010 and they can just turn it on. Yeah, it's not... an awful lot of them need to get going here soon. 

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vadarx said on 6 hours ago:

I'm with ya, mvr. This team's youngsters, I like. The vets on the team look like they think it's 2010 and they can just turn it on. Yeah, it's not... an awful lot of them need to get going here soon. 

Some posters here have suggested that the Hawk core can simply "turn on the switch", when necessary, and cruise to victory.  Those days, if they ever existed, are definitely over.  I think the rest of the league has caught up with them and their weak support players, so that will never happen.  The core is not good enough to win without quality support.  Hopefully, for them, the support players will improve enough over the year to allow the core to again win, if they themselves start playing better. 

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jacksalmon said on 2 hours ago:

Some posters here have suggested that the Hawk core can simply "turn on the switch", when necessary, and cruise to victory.  Those days, if they ever existed, are definitely over.  I think the rest of the league has caught up with them and their weak support players, so that will never happen.  The core is not good enough to win without quality support.  Hopefully, for them, the support players will improve enough over the year to allow the core to again win, if they themselves start playing better. 

The problem is not the support players, it's the core.  They're the ones who have played like congealed buttsweat this season.

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