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Madrose

2/02 Hawks vs Yotes

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^ No.

You don't "snooze" anytime you're on 3 game losing streak against a zitty team. That wasn't "snoozing," it was "stupidity."

This team needs to get it together for a full 60 already. These ugly wins are beyond old.

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There may be a difference between conscious and unconscious snoozing.  What you are calling stupidity may be unconsciously deciding the game is won and there is no further need to play with serious mental and physical effort?  So, to follow up on your thought, a team that was "smart" and "able" in the 1st period, goes "stupid" the rest of the game?  What really is that "stupidity" of which you speak?  I think it is some sort of unconscious slip into snoozing. 

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Nobody is going to say they've looked like a dominating team at any point this season...but they've had longer winning streaks than losing streaks.....although..it's been a swim through quicksand of late...

There's been 2 frustrating 3 game losing streaks lately, and understandably concerns are spiking. But they are well past the halfway point and have avoided real tailspins to this point. 

The reg is what it is...last year the team was 20 games over .500 after 65 games and the line for a deep Cup run was forming on the left. The deep run didn't happen.

They'll have to go 9-3-0 over the next 12 to match last years mark, but that hardly matters,(at least not to me) the reg means nothing. Again, it was 1 and done.

Still and all, you don't have TT and Shaw on this mutation, and those 2 combined for 69 points. Call it a stretch but a guy like ADJ in his limited role had 13 points last year.....TT, Shaw, and ADJ = 82 points, that's a welcome PPG gone missing.

 

Maybe it's just the hazy ramblings of a guy who works nights... but the overall picture is a team trying to make it's case  once again, after losing players who produced, (once again)

Toews has actually been bringing the points of late, meanwhile, prior to last night Breadman and Hoss had been dry as a fart in Church. Hockey seasons can get pretty weird 

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Granada said on 1 hour ago:

This really isn't complicated.

When your vets take stupid penalties that allow the opponent back in the game, it's stupid.

OK, I am not really arguing with you.  I am just presenting another side.  Let's say, they were stupid last night.  Then, how do you explain blowing the leads against the Bolts and Jets in the 3d; and at home yet.  Snoozin' or stupidin'? 

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Granada said on 1 hour ago:

^ Neither. It's a matter of depth (lack of).

So, it ain't the team it used to be?  That is obvious.  But, do you also think they have surpassed by others in talent, when measured throughout the entire depth of the teams?  Do you personally think they can still win the Cup this year?  Another Miracle on Ice? 

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jacksalmon said on Just now:

So, it ain't the team it used to be?  That is obvious.  But, do you also think they have surpassed by others in talent, when measured throughout the entire depth of the teams?  Do you personally think they can still win the Cup this year?  Another Miracle on Ice? 

(To the bolded) I don't know if this is just awkwardly worded, but I don't understand the question. They're less deep. Other teams are deeper.

I've said before: no, I don't think this team can win a Cup this year, because they're not deep enough.

I just think it's a cop-out to say, "oh, they're snoozing." No....they're just not as good or deep or as puck-possession dominant or as fast or as a-lot-of-things. They'll make the playoffs, but I don't think they'll win a Cup.

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Granada said on 1 hour ago:

(To the bolded) I don't know if this is just awkwardly worded, but I don't understand the question. They're less deep. Other teams are deeper.

I've said before: no, I don't think this team can win a Cup this year, because they're not deep enough.

I just think it's a cop-out to say, "oh, they're snoozing." No....they're just not as good or deep or as puck-possession dominant or as fast or as a-lot-of-things. They'll make the playoffs, but I don't think they'll win a Cup.

I agree, granada, they not a lot of things that they once were over the past 7-8 prior seasons. Surely we are less deep. I do not think it is a cop out to say that they (and by they, I mean the core players) are "snoozing", because they are obviously doing just that and have done that every single season since Q took over as coach. 

Now if you are saying that claiming that as the sole reason, then yes, I agree. But I think that, combined with said lack of depth, is most certainly the reason they have looked like crap for the past month. And, I might add, they will continue to look like crap for this month as well unless the young guys really start contributing more than they already are, cuz, imo, the core guys are gonna keep hammering that snooze button until mid March.... 

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Granada said on 2 hours ago:

(To the bolded) I don't know if this is just awkwardly worded, but I don't understand the question. They're less deep. Other teams are deeper.

I've said before: no, I don't think this team can win a Cup this year, because they're not deep enough.

I just think it's a cop-out to say, "oh, they're snoozing." No....they're just not as good or deep or as puck-possession dominant or as fast or as a-lot-of-things. They'll make the playoffs, but I don't think they'll win a Cup.

Sorry I left out the word "been" in the sentence before the word "surpassed".  No wonder you were confused.  But, you answered my questions anyway and got right to the point.  Thanks.  I like to get the opinions of other posters on their Cup chances. 

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vadarx said on 2 hours ago:

I agree, granada, they not a lot of things that they once were over the past 7-8 prior seasons. Surely we are less deep. I do not think it is a cop out to say that they (and by they, I mean the core players) are "snoozing", because they are obviously doing just that and have done that every single season since Q took over as coach. 

Now if you are saying that claiming that as the sole reason, then yes, I agree. But I think that, combined with said lack of depth, is most certainly the reason they have looked like crap for the past month. And, I might add, they will continue to look like crap for this month as well unless the young guys really start contributing more than they already are, cuz, imo, the core guys are gonna keep hammering that snooze button until mid March.... 

Unfortunately, that is what most were saying last year, until the Blues got hold of them in the playoffs.  Then, it was they had played too much hockey in the past 6 years.  I think depth is a real problem and will be so the rest of the year; and maybe the rest of Kane and Toews' careers. 

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Maybe I am in the minority around here, but the truth is, the Hawks are actually exceeding expectations thus far. There was a question posted early in the season about where the Hawks would end up this year and many felt this team was a cup contender, in response to that question, I felt this team was only a wildcard team and I for one never thought the central divsion would be as it is with many teams in it having many question marks sourrounding there play. This is a transition year if fans like it or not(if the team wins, thats amazing) to many rookies trying to find there way, makeshift 3rd and 4th lines, many were expecting more from Kempny and Forsling, the core players have been subpar, special teams is a nightmare(why Kitchen is still even coaching on this team is beyond me) the cap is killing this team and point production from our 10.5 million dollar stars are way down from previous year, not to mention Keith is nowhere close to the Keith we as fans are use to seeing. This team has 3 cups in 7 years, it took the Penguins 7 years to get back to the cup final to win there 2nd. Its going to take a little more time with this current squad, let the kids get acclamated and find there way, maybe management can find a way to move a huge contract to give this team more options. Either way, lets calm down and let our Hawks set there path and see where it takes them.

Go Hawks Go

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hawkinmontreal said on 39 minutes ago:

Maybe I am in the minority around here, but the truth is, the Hawks are actually exceeding expectations thus far. There was a question posted early in the season about where the Hawks would end up this year and many felt this team was a cup contender, in response to that question, I felt this team was only a wildcard team and I for one never thought the central divsion would be as it is with many teams in it having many question marks sourrounding there play. This is a transition year if fans like it or not(if the team wins, thats amazing) to many rookies trying to find there way, makeshift 3rd and 4th lines, many were expecting more from Kempny and Forsling, the core players have been subpar, special teams is a nightmare(why Kitchen is still even coaching on this team is beyond me) the cap is killing this team and point production from our 10.5 million dollar stars are way down from previous year, not to mention Keith is nowhere close to the Keith we as fans are use to seeing. This team has 3 cups in 7 years, it took the Penguins 7 years to get back to the cup final to win there 2nd. Its going to take a little more time with this current squad, let the kids get acclamated and find there way, maybe management can find a way to move a huge contract to give this team more options. Either way, lets calm down and let our Hawks set there path and see where it takes them.

Go Hawks Go

This may be a transition year, as you say, but it could be a transition to a worse product rather than a better one.  I am not going to say it will be one or the other.  But, consider the following:

There is no guarantee that the rookies will be any better next year than they are this year.

If you think Keith is having a down year and the "core players have been subpar", why expect a bounce back from any of them?  Why expect the $10.5 million men to have better point production than what they are having this year?  All that bunch may be getting older and more worn and incapable of the same..

The makeshift lines that involve Desjardins, Tootoo, Kruger and others may be exactly the same, if some or all come back; and there is no guarantee that their replacements will be any better. 

On the other hand, there could be miracle comebacks from the core next year and the rookies may come out as high performance veterans.  Who knows?  I only responded to indicate that there is no guarantee that the transition year is a transition to better things. 

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jacksalmon said on 2 hours ago:

Unfortunately, that is what most were saying last year, until the Blues got hold of them in the playoffs.  Then, it was they had played too much hockey in the past 6 years.  I think depth is a real problem and will be so the rest of the year; and maybe the rest of Kane and Toews' careers. 

I think that last year it was more they dinked around for the first 4 games and didn't finish. Took them until they were on the brink to get going. If they don't blow game 3 last year they win that series, imo...

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As far as the player being tired, I am not gonna link it here and I generally loathe espn for anything, most especially hockey info, but they have a good piece up with a bunch of players/coaches quotes regarding the compressed schedule and how it has affected them, including hoss, soupy, crow and coach Q....

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vadarx said on 10 hours ago:

As far as the player being tired, I am not gonna link it here and I generally loathe espn for anything, most especially hockey info, but they have a good piece up with a bunch of players/coaches quotes regarding the compressed schedule and how it has affected them, including hoss, soupy, crow and coach Q....

 

The compressed season has been discussed on the NHL Sat radio site from the beginning of the season by coaches, GM's, and past and present players.  I do believe it has an impact on both the injury and fatigue side.

It is also very well known that through-out a long season players will tune out a bit.   No different that any of us throughout a work year.

Couple in the compressed season and the typical tune out of the grind and teams will not be performing to the max every game.   

 

'Hawks are not the only team afflicted that started "hot".   Just look at the Habs and Rangers as an example.  While depth is what helps put teams over the top, it is not the whole factor as the Habs and the Rangers have at least 3 solid lines....and yet both faulterd.

It is a long season, and this January feels like most of the Hawks January's since Q took over. Not sure if that is part of the plan, but that gets noticed on these boards almost every season and every time it does we have the same conversations and concerns.    Just something I find interesting, and having watched this sport for almost 38 years the tune out has been common with all teams and I have learned to just try to look at the season as a whole rather than a snippet.  In the whole view I am very much in belief that the compressed schedule is having a league wide affect along with most of the league getting tighter in total team talent.

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jacksalmon said on 12 hours ago:

This may be a transition year, as you say, but it could be a transition to a worse product rather than a better one.  I am not going to say it will be one or the other.  But, consider the following:

There is no guarantee that the rookies will be any better next year than they are this year.

If you think Keith is having a down year and the "core players have been subpar", why expect a bounce back from any of them?  Why expect the $10.5 million men to have better point production than what they are having this year?  All that bunch may be getting older and more worn and incapable of the same..

The makeshift lines that involve Desjardins, Tootoo, Kruger and others may be exactly the same, if some or all come back; and there is no guarantee that their replacements will be any better. 

On the other hand, there could be miracle comebacks from the core next year and the rookies may come out as high performance veterans.  Who knows?  I only responded to indicate that there is no guarantee that the transition year is a transition to better things. 

Jack, players can have down years. Is age a reason who knows, but I certainly think for Kaner and Tazer age should not be an issue. Keith came into the season with a lingering knee problem, is it wear and tear because of his age, the amount of ice time he has had, once again who knows. There are many question marks, but how can we make an accurate assessment of this, if this same occurence happens for a few years straight then there is reason to be concerned. 

Can Toews and Kane be better, of course they can, in relation to Tazer, I hope and pray he goes back to his 30 goal seasons and the kids need time to adjust, will they be better next year, once again who knows, but having a full season under there belt and some playoffs it will give them more experience going forward. 

In terms of miracle comebacks, the team sits second in the central and top ten in the league in points its a stretch to say miracle comeback. These Hawks players we talk about havw proven in many occasions they have what it takes to bounce back from an up and down season, I think as fans we can be a little more patient. Look at it this way, the caps, blues, sharks, ducks, preds, wild, have been icing solid teams for years and havent even sniffed the cup let alone lift it over their heads. The team needs some tweaking not going to argue that, but I would say they are still closer to the top of the league than the bottom.

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hawkinmontreal said on 14 minutes ago:

Jack, players can have down years. Is age a reason who knows, but I certainly think for Kaner and Tazer age should not be an issue. Keith came into the season with a lingering knee problem, is it wear and tear because of his age, the amount of ice time he has had, once again who knows. There are many question marks, but how can we make an accurate assessment of this, if this same occurence happens for a few years straight then there is reason to be concerned. 

Can Toews and Kane be better, of course they can, in relation to Tazer, I hope and pray he goes back to his 30 goal seasons and the kids need time to adjust, will they be better next year, once again who knows, but having a full season under there belt and some playoffs it will give them more experience going forward. 

In terms of miracle comebacks, the team sits second in the central and top ten in the league in points its a stretch to say miracle comeback. These Hawks players we talk about havw proven in many occasions they have what it takes to bounce back from an up and down season, I think as fans we can be a little more patient. Look at it this way, the caps, blues, sharks, ducks, preds, wild, have been icing solid teams for years and havent even sniffed the cup let alone lift it over their heads. The team needs some tweaking not going to argue that, but I would say they are still closer to the top of the league than the bottom.

There is no doubt they are closer to the top than the bottom, but may not be good enough to win it all.  I have one hope left.  That is that when the playoffs start, and I have no doubt the Hawks will be there, they will step it up and be a much better team than they have been so far this year.  If they look bad in the first few games of their first series, that hope will be lost and I'll just figure it was a nice run but it is over. 

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Biscuit_In_The_Basket said on 3 hours ago:

 

The compressed season has been discussed on the NHL Sat radio site from the beginning of the season by coaches, GM's, and past and present players.  I do believe it has an impact on both the injury and fatigue side.

It is also very well known that through-out a long season players will tune out a bit.   No different that any of us throughout a work year.

Couple in the compressed season and the typical tune out of the grind and teams will not be performing to the max every game.   

 

'Hawks are not the only team afflicted that started "hot".   Just look at the Habs and Rangers as an example.  While depth is what helps put teams over the top, it is not the whole factor as the Habs and the Rangers have at least 3 solid lines....and yet both faulterd.

It is a long season, and this January feels like most of the Hawks January's since Q took over. Not sure if that is part of the plan, but that gets noticed on these boards almost every season and every time it does we have the same conversations and concerns.    Just something I find interesting, and having watched this sport for almost 38 years the tune out has been common with all teams and I have learned to just try to look at the season as a whole rather than a snippet.  In the whole view I am very much in belief that the compressed schedule is having a league wide affect along with most of the league getting tighter in total team talent.

Like the Hawks,the Pens,Jackets,Rangers and Flyers are all 5-5-0 their last 10 and the Habs are 4-5-1. Don't even get me started on the Stars and Blues......"those guys are gonna kill us this year"! 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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Biscuit_In_The_Basket said on 7 hours ago:

 

The compressed season has been discussed on the NHL Sat radio site from the beginning of the season by coaches, GM's, and past and present players.  I do believe it has an impact on both the injury and fatigue side.

It is also very well known that through-out a long season players will tune out a bit.   No different that any of us throughout a work year.

Couple in the compressed season and the typical tune out of the grind and teams will not be performing to the max every game.   

 

'Hawks are not the only team afflicted that started "hot".   Just look at the Habs and Rangers as an example.  While depth is what helps put teams over the top, it is not the whole factor as the Habs and the Rangers have at least 3 solid lines....and yet both faulterd.

It is a long season, and this January feels like most of the Hawks January's since Q took over. Not sure if that is part of the plan, but that gets noticed on these boards almost every season and every time it does we have the same conversations and concerns.    Just something I find interesting, and having watched this sport for almost 38 years the tune out has been common with all teams and I have learned to just try to look at the season as a whole rather than a snippet.  In the whole view I am very much in belief that the compressed schedule is having a league wide affect along with most of the league getting tighter in total team talent.

Agree on all counts!

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Too many good responses to quote......

It's been said, but I do think it's true.....as fans the expectations are Cup or bust, every year. Nothing wrong with that......

Take this analogy for what it's worth....you have a beautiful wife with a great personality....everybody loves her, all your buddies rag on you that you're way over your skies, their wives or girlfriends want to hate her but they just can't. 

Yet idiot you.....you nod your head yet inside you want to explain why she ain't so perfect, all for silly reasons.....she's a car slob....she watches too much HGTV.... .just.dumb.stuff.

That's got to be what it's like to be a fan of these other teams that hsbob brought up....or why a program like basketball at Duke generates such hatred and envy. To them, it's got to be somewhat unthinkable that we could be so critical and unhappy with what we've watched unfold over the last 7 years. To them, we've eaten enough damn cake already, and for once they'd like a slice.

Yeah, it's scary to think this core won't raise another Cup.....and that remains to be seen. But Chicago still gets major respect outside of our self-absorbed bubble, and for good reasons.

The Golden Era is dead......Long Live the Golden Era !

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jacksalmon said on On 2/3/2017 at 7:21 PM:

Unfortunately, that is what most were saying last year, until the Blues got hold of them in the playoffs.  Then, it was they had played too much hockey in the past 6 years.  I think depth is a real problem and will be so the rest of the year; and maybe the rest of Kane and Toews' careers. 

Exactly. There are always excuses. Remember when going out in the first round last year was supposed to "rejuvenate" the Hawks? Now, we're tired again and "snoozing." It just seems too convenient. Every team has to play with a condensed schedule. The fact is, that if there is any tiredness going on, it's because the vets are on the team are being asked to do too much, which again directly point to the lack of depth on the team.

Although I do think the depth will return to this team eventually, as long as the right decisions are made (easier said than done, but still).

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jacksalmon said on On 2/3/2017 at 7:21 PM:

Unfortunately, that is what most were saying last year, until the Blues got hold of them in the playoffs.  Then, it was they had played too much hockey in the past 6 years.  I think depth is a real problem and will be so the rest of the year; and maybe the rest of Kane and Toews' careers. 

The Blues got hold of them? The Blues were outscored in the series,the Blues suffered the only blow out and the Blues won a one goal,home,game seven. 

Elliotte was the reason the Blues won that series and if the Hawks pot one in game one,they win in six!

The Blues let that goaltender walk and what they have hold of this season can't be written on these boards by a gentle guy like myself but I hear it can cause blindness!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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