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mvr

Changes needed on the fourth line....

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In all honesty, the forth line is far from the teams current issues. With the injuries and the dissapearing act of our top guns and the line juggling its probably going to be like that until april. 

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maybe we should give the guy a game before burying him. who knows? maybe...just maybe....someone in management knows something we dont. or at least mightve seen him play.

he was undrafted. maybe he really is a late bloomer. stranger things have happened. find out soon enough i guess.

recently....42 points in 49 games as a hog. 35 in 42 in the SHL last year. ive seen worse numbers. 

edit: yeah....im aware theres a ton of AHLers over the years with good numbers that didnt translate to an NHL career. the guy we traded to get abbott...t.j. brennan...hes a good example. he was a #31 pick the year he was drafted and has put up great numbers in the ahl for a defenseman.

 

 

Edited by galaxytrash
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As a 4th liner, what is anyone expecting? He probably won't hurt the team. I wonder how McNeil fits in? The team owes him an opportunity to make the NHL, whether it's here or elsewhere. This move really does not require overthinking!!!

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irmaks said on 16 hours ago:

And coach's response to multiple loses is  to punish guys that played really well (Hino and Hart) but continue audition for that elusive winger that can make 10mils player to look like at least 5mils. Sure why not. 

Maybe he feels they need a better center--snarkiness intended.

I shouldn't be too hard on Toews, he's either still hurt or snakebit, but as our top-paid center we need him playing like a #1 in more areas than just faceoffs.  Getting Hossa back should help but maybe, just maybe, giving him someone perceived as a career AHL'er is a message to him that he needs to step it up and be a bit more.

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Eager was fine. Burish -- yeah, he sucked. But Eager, Fraser -- they served their purpose in the playoffs, which is all you can ask for. Eager especially, considering he scored that monumental GWG en route to the Cup.

I don't even put Madden in the same league as Eager/Fraser/Burish because he was utterly instrumental and played beyond a typical 4th liner. But anyways...

Admittedly, I haven't followed Rockford closely, but I'd like to see McNeil up.

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Granada said on 2 hours ago:

Eager was fine. Burish -- yeah, he sucked. But Eager, Fraser -- they served their purpose in the playoffs, which is all you can ask for. Eager especially, considering he scored that monumental GWG en route to the Cup.

I don't even put Madden in the same league as Eager/Fraser/Burish because he was utterly instrumental and played beyond a typical 4th liner. But anyways...

Admittedly, I haven't followed Rockford closely, but I'd like to see McNeil up.

Not sure what the deal is with Mcneil and why he has not been given a chance with the big club.

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hawkinmontreal said on 3 hours ago:

Not sure what the deal is with Mcneil and why he has not been given a chance with the big club.

I said in another thread, he must of slept with every one in the orgs daughters and wives!!!

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The thinking by bringing up Abbott is that he would help generate more offence.

I don't see it.

Last night, Quenneville used him for a grand total of eight minutes.  Abbott started on the Toews line, but quickly found himself cemented to the bench after the Hawks fell behind.   Clearly, the coach recognized that he had better scoring line options at his disposal.  

I believe Abbott's skill-set as a small-skilled puck distributer is redundant with Kane, Panarin and Hinostroza already on board.  It makes much more sense for Panik (or Hartman) to play consistently with the big boys (at least until someone better comes along) and for Bowman to work on improving the fourth line.

For now, McNeill would be a much better choice for the 13th forward, given his size and other attributes.  

There is only so much room in Quenneville's lineup for small-skilled forwards.   When will Bowman understand this reality and provide him with some real options?

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So now Bowman has assigned both Abbott and Forsling to the AHL.   What is going on?

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mvr said on 2 minutes ago:

So now Bowman has assigned both Abbott and Forsling to the AHL.   What is going on?

Well it seems Campbell is out of Q's doghouse with Forsling being sent down.

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I believe we are starting to see some cap maneuvres to save cash.

 

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mvr said on Just now:

I believe we are starting to see some cap maneuvres to save cash.

 

Could be mvr but I know Campbell was not a happy camper being scratched. He had a 400+ game streak going for consecutive games played and it was brought up in the press here. This could also be a sign from Stan that maybe Q shouldn't do that again. Haven't seen if they brought up another D man so it will be interesting.

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Creature1958 said on 6 minutes ago:

Could be mvr but I know Campbell was not a happy camper being scratched. He had a 400+ game streak going for consecutive games played and it was brought up in the press here. This could also be a sign from Stan that maybe Q shouldn't do that again. Haven't seen if they brought up another D man so it will be interesting.

campbell is closer to 38 than 37.

i understand hes pissed off but he wasnt going to catch doug jarvis. 

i would be pissed off too but also would sit in the press box thinking *not bad for 37*. :)

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galaxytrash said on 21 minutes ago:

campbell is closer to 38 than 37.

i understand hes pissed off but he wasnt going to catch doug jarvis. 

i would be pissed off too but also would sit in the press box thinking *not bad for 37*. :)

No he was thinking 37 and this is what I have become "A soft serve server for Edzo and Pat"?:P

Edited by Creature1958
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I realize that many do not place much value in the much maligned "old school"  +/-  statistic.    I believe, taken in context, it still has its use.

A quick glance through the dismal numbers in Rockford shows most of the big names down there are well into double digits in the minus column.   

There is one notable exception.  Martin Lundberg, the Swede UFA veteran Bowman signed last summer,  is a plus one, with 13 points.    Perhaps the player's "adjustment" to the North American game is just about complete.   If so, I would like to see what we have with this player.

Lundberg is listed as a centre, though I understand he can also play wing.   His reputation is as a physical defence-first grinder who can play a two way game.  

The Hawk announcers gushed over the fourth line and its "zone time" last night against the Preds.  

I noticed that they did not score again but allowed another goal.  

Desjardins and Tootoo work hard, but they really do not get much done.  

An all-Swede fourth line of Lundberg, Rasmussen and Kruger (with McNeil as the spare) almost surely would be an upgrade on what we are seeing now (zero points in half a season).

http://www.icehogs.com/team/stats/

 

Edited by mvr
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The Hawks stars (Toews, Kane and Panarin etc) were MIA in Washington last night, as they have been too often this season for many fans.  

Still, the brutal collapse against the Capitals once again demonstrates, at least to my mind, what the real problem has been with this team for most of this year (and last).

Anyone who watched the game carefully would tell you that Alex Ovechkin did not beat this team last night.   It was third and fourth liners like Beagle, Eller, Winnick, Connelly and Wilson who were the big difference makers.

The Capitals got production and valuable ice-time from their third and fourth liners.  The star players on both sides basically cancelled each other out.

The Hawks third and fourth lines could not contain the Capitals' superior depth (on their bottom lines).   Andrew Desjardins played eight minutes last night and was -2 (with no points).   He is now is -7 on the season (with no points) in 27 games (the worst on the team).   

Tootoo and Rasmussen both were  -2 last night and are now -5 each on the season.    Tootoo still has zero points on the season.

Energy lines are supposed to provide energy.   A coach typically relies on these lines to give the star forwards a breather.    If the line can hold its own for the 30 second shifts, they are succeeding.

This line continues to put the team in the hole.   Quenneville rarely can play them more than a few shifts a game because he just can't hide them.  

As I wrote above, I would like to see two of Baun, Lundberg and McNeil recalled immediately, and both Desjardins and Tootoo waived.   Doing so would save an additional $200 K or so against the cap (pro rated).   It would also provide the coach with some youthful enthusiasm (and perhaps more talent).    

Certainly, he is not getting much "energy" from this line right now.   The veterans are not getting the job done.

It is time.

Edited by mvr
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Icaddiedforstosh said on On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:23 PM:

Haven't heard a peep about Hanzal, but there are a few articles about Iginla floating around.....but every article poses the same legit question, and it's about his cap number.

Also...if the idea is to put Iginla with Toews....does he have enough in those 39 years old legs to skate that many minutes? Then again, there was the prevailing "Hossa on LITR" argument, so....

Maybe Iggy gets a push in the back trying to get that elusive Cup...his numbers are way down, but then again he's pulling that Avalanche jersey over his head every work night.

As for Abbott....I have no idea. I just know it's anybody BUT McNeil, 

Finally...Ben Eager? Million dollar skating stride, 10 cent brain. He was OK in my book but for the fact he was always skating beautifully to the penalty box, and always at just the wrong time.

Agreed.  However, I thought he was still a significant member of that 2010 team in that they did roll four lines and, as Dale Tallon once put it, was the one team we had in the three recent Cup years that could play ANY style necessary to win a hockey game.

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mvr said on 7 hours ago:

The Hawks stars (Toews, Kane and Panarin etc) were MIA in Washington last night, as they have been too often this season for many fans.  

Still, the brutal collapse against the Capitals once again demonstrates, at least to my mind, what the real problem has been with this team for most of this year (and last).

Anyone who watched the game carefully would tell you that Alex Ovechkin did not beat this team last night.   It was third and fourth liners like Beagle, Eller, Winnick, Connelly and Wilson who were the big difference makers.

The Capitals got production and valuable ice-time from their third and fourth liners.  The star players on both sides basically cancelled each other out.

The Hawks third and fourth lines could not contain the Capitals' superior depth (on their bottom lines).   Andrew Desjardins played eight minutes last night and was -2 (with no points).   He is now is -7 on the season (with no points) in 27 games (the worst on the team).   

Tootoo and Rasmussen both were  -2 last night and are now -5 each on the season.    Tootoo still has zero points on the season.

Energy lines are supposed to provide energy.   A coach typically relies on these lines to give the star forwards a breather.    If the line can hold its own for the 30 second shifts, they are succeeding.

This line continues to put the team in the hole.   Quenneville rarely can play them more than a few shifts a game because he just can't hide them.  

As I wrote above, I would like to see two of Baun, Lundberg and McNeil recalled immediately, and both Desjardins and Tootoo waived.   Doing so would save an additional $200 K or so against the cap (pro rated).   It would also provide the coach with some youthful enthusiasm (and perhaps more talent).    

Certainly, he is not getting much "energy" from this line right now.   The veterans are not getting the job done.

It is time.

Agreed. All those guys blow. 

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This year is a bit better than last year, at least we have a 3rd line, but they're all rookies. Next year things will get tight again and we'll need at some point to be able to keep some of these kids. The 3rd and 4th lines have suffered, and we are burning out our top guys. Is it worth it? I don't think so. It's time to shrink the core a bit and get a TEAM in place. We will never win another Cup if we can't ice a TEAM!!!

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Puckjim said on 1 hour ago:

Agreed. All those guys blow. 

We know Desjardins and Tootoo can't score or defend any longer.   

We suspect the Rockford checkers might not be much better.   But we do not know.

Let's see what we have with Baun, Lundberg and McNeil.  Honestly, at this stage, they can't be worse.  Recalling them will not "hurt" their development.   They are all experienced pros.

 Why not try to fix the problem?

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mvr said on 7 minutes ago:

We know Desjardins and Tootoo can't score or defend any longer.   

We suspect the Rockford checkers might not be much better.   But we do not know.

Let's see what we have with Baun, Lundberg and McNeil.  Honestly, at this stage, they can't be worse.  Recalling them will not "hurt" their development.   They are all experienced pros.

 Why not try to fix the problem?

Give McNeill a friggin' legit chance already!

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mvr said on 7 minutes ago:

We know Desjardins and Tootoo can't score or defend any longer.   

We suspect the Rockford checkers might not be much better.   But we do not know.

Let's see what we have with Baun, Lundberg and McNeil.  Honestly, at this stage, they can't be worse.  Recalling them will not "hurt" their development.   They are all experienced pros.

 Why not try to fix the problem?

ive always liked our role players...no matter what year it was. its an underdog thing i guess...but i agree its worth a try.

itd be nice if our role players played a bigger role for sure.

even the new role players would be underdogs i guess.  :)

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mvr said on 31 minutes ago:

We know Desjardins and Tootoo can't score or defend any longer.   

We suspect the Rockford checkers might not be much better.   But we do not know.

Let's see what we have with Baun, Lundberg and McNeil.  Honestly, at this stage, they can't be worse.  Recalling them will not "hurt" their development.   They are all experienced pros.

 Why not try to fix the problem?

The regular season is just a really long, expensive training camp. 

I'm for trying anything....

Edited by Puckjim
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It was same old song last year.

Most here (including Stan Bowman) recognized that the fourth line wasn't working with Mashinter and Desjardins.   The general manager to his credit brought in legitimate reinforcements - but not until March - and he made the mistake of keeping the stale comfort food options on the table.  

The coach by that point wasn't interested in trying something new for whatever reason.   It did not work.  

I say Bowman needs to force the coach's hand here right now.   Get rid of Tootoo and Desjardins before this season is wasted.   

Teams need to roll four lines to be successful in the modern game.   This team has no fourth line, given the present roster.  They need to experiment with other options.

 

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abbot was brought up purely for another team to watch that was at the UC......

stan is making his cap moves now according to some writers.......

11 + 22= not much......I'd much rather see motte come back he wont hurt ya

defensively at least.......

 

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