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mvr

Changes needed on the fourth line....

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Puckjim said on 11 hours ago:

I LOL'd. 

Time has made people forget that Burish and Eager both sucked. 

Burish,Eager and Frasier were 5-10 goal guys who were hard on the forecheck and even Bollig had 8 skatin' 4th line. That describes most team's 4th liners,you just don't like those guys because they were fighters and you know it.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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mvr said on 11 hours ago:

So now Bowman has recalled Spencer Abbott from Rockford.

This is a 28-year-old AHL lifer - a free agent pickup last summer from the Maple Leafs system.   From what I remember about the player, he is yet another small, scrappy type - a poor man's Ryan Hartman without the upside.    Abbott and McNeil presently share the team scoring lead.  

 I do not get the move.    McNeil is five years younger and at least 40 pounds heavier.   He kills penalties and wins face-offs.  

Sure, he has been a disappointment considering his draft position.   But he is clearly the better choice at this stage.    What is the harm with giving him a few games?   The treatment of this player is now bordering on malicious.   

PuckjIm -   Eager was a double digit goal scorer who could throw a hit.  Burish also scored some, agitated plenty, and killed penalties.   This is what a fourth line should look like.    We haven't seen a good one here (other than during the playoffs in 2013) since these two left.

I give the FO and the staff a pretty wide berth around here due to the amount of recent success they've had but I see no reason at all to not give McNeill a decent look.

I though his re-signing on the cheap would get him that look and I have to wonder why they re-signed him at all at this point. I have to believe that neither SB or Q have something against this kid or he'd be gone but I also believe that neither are pushing for him or he'd be in there. The little we saw of him has been meh but meh that can win a few draws,pot a few goal and add a little size wouldn't bother me at all. He was too careful to show much physicality in his one reg season and a few PS games but has been fairly physical at the Rock and willing to engage in all aspects.

If this player looked at all decent in a 10-15 game stint,his trade value would go from nearly nothing to something and I thought we'd see him for that reason if nothing else.  

At this point I have to think we'd see Baun before McNiell too.

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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I haven't been following the Icehogs at all but in looking at the AHL standings and their player stats, I might be more concerned about the lack of talent in the minors than who they choose to promote.  It doesn't look too good on the farm right now.

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hsbob said on 1 hour ago:

I give the FO and the staff a pretty wide berth around here due to the amount of recent success they've had but I see no reason at all to not give McNeill a decent look.

I though his re-signing on the cheap would get him that look and I have to wonder why they re-signed him at all at this point. I have to believe that neither SB or Q have something against this kid or he'd be gone but I also believe that neither are pushing for him or he'd be in there. The little we saw of him has been meh but meh that can win a few draws,pot a few goal and add a little size wouldn't bother me at all. He was too careful to show much physicality in his one reg season and a few PS games but has been fairly physical at the Rock and willing to engage in all aspects.

 

i agree with all you wrote but as you likely know....mcneill wont get a spot on this team for his physical game. Q has his reasons no doubt but for whatever reason he just doesnt care for the physical aspect.

but if he can win half of his draws and score on a 25 point season pace.....it would be a big improvement.

im trying to find a reason for mceill not being called up but its hard going.

maybe this abbott guy is a late bloomer?

Edited by galaxytrash
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hsbob said on 2 hours ago:

Burish,Eager and Frasier were 5-10 goal guys who were hard on the forecheck and even Bollig had 8 skatin' 4th line. That describes most team's 4th liners,you just don't like those guys because they were fighters and you know it.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Well I don't like fighting in the NHL but those guys were bad at it so I'm not sure what's to like?

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Puckjim said on 4 minutes ago:

Well I don't like fighting in the NHL but those guys were bad at it so I'm not sure what's to like?

objection!

objection your honor!!

he is clearly avoiding the main point of the quote!!

:P

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hsbob said on 2 hours ago:

I give the FO and the staff a pretty wide berth around here due to the amount of recent success they've had but I see no reason at all to not give McNeill a decent look.

I though his re-signing on the cheap would get him that look and I have to wonder why they re-signed him at all at this point. I have to believe that neither SB or Q have something against this kid or he'd be gone but I also believe that neither are pushing for him or he'd be in there. The little we saw of him has been meh but meh that can win a few draws,pot a few goal and add a little size wouldn't bother me at all. He was too careful to show much physicality in his one reg season and a few PS games but has been fairly physical at the Rock and willing to engage in all aspects.

If this player looked at all decent in a 10-15 game stint,his trade value would go from nearly nothing to something and I thought we'd see him for that reason if nothing else.  

At this point I have to think we'd see Baun before McNiell too.

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

You're always the voice of sober second thought here, Bob.   I always respect and look forward to your posts.

As you wrote above, it is odd that the team last summer valued McNeill enough to re-sign him.  You're right that they must still see something in him.  

Still, the whole situation around this player is weird.   

McNeill has become a prototypical fourth-liner who checks just about every box you would want for that role.   He has the size/build, the defensive two-way game, the penalty killing experience and the ability to win a faceoff.   He is only 23, which means his best years are still ahead of him.   He needs to play.

If Bowman recalled Baun instead, I would understand.  He also checks many of the same boxes.

 Abbott is a small one-dimensional type -  and the Hawks are loaded with this type of player already.   When Hinostroza moves back to the fourth line, there will three fourth liners (including Tootoo) all under 5' 10."     Abbott has played one NHL game and is 28 years old.  

 

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yooper496 said on 10 hours ago:

Tracy Costello must not be available...

HEY ABBOOOOOTTTTTTT!!!!

Sorry, had to...

Anyhow, re: Abbott...i was kinda surprised that McNeil didn't get the not especially if he's willing to crash the net, something I've only seen Toews, and occasionally Hartman and Panik do.  But still, I wish Abbott luck up here and hope he works well.

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hsbob said on 4 hours ago:

Burish,Eager and Frasier were 5-10 goal guys who were hard on the forecheck and even Bollig had 8 skatin' 4th line. That describes most team's 4th liners,you just don't like those guys because they were fighters and you know it.

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Just never ask Jim for his list of worthless NHL players. It will be a longer read than War and Peace.

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hsbob said on 4 hours ago:

I give the FO and the staff a pretty wide berth around here due to the amount of recent success they've had but I see no reason at all to not give McNeill a decent look.

I though his re-signing on the cheap would get him that look and I have to wonder why they re-signed him at all at this point. I have to believe that neither SB or Q have something against this kid or he'd be gone but I also believe that neither are pushing for him or he'd be in there. The little we saw of him has been meh but meh that can win a few draws,pot a few goal and add a little size wouldn't bother me at all. He was too careful to show much physicality in his one reg season and a few PS games but has been fairly physical at the Rock and willing to engage in all aspects.

If this player looked at all decent in a 10-15 game stint,his trade value would go from nearly nothing to something and I thought we'd see him for that reason if nothing else.  

At this point I have to think we'd see Baun before McNiell too.

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Maybe McNeil has become the "Crash" Davis character, valuable enough to mentor, but not good enough to play.

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Creature1958 said on 43 minutes ago:

Just never ask Jim for his list of worthless NHL players. It will be a longer read than War and Peace.

All you need to do is filter by the words "grit" "jam" or "momentum" and you would cover just about all of them.

Along with Nick Boynton.

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Puckjim said on 35 minutes ago:

All you need to do is filter by the words "grit" "jam" or "momentum" and you would cover just about all of them.

Along with Nick Boynton.

 

Cool, that does not include Matt Elison

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Puckjim said on 1 hour ago:

All you need to do is filter by the words "grit" "jam" or "momentum" and you would cover just about all of them.

Along with Nick Boynton.

So I'll add in Peter Marsh,Tim Higgins,Steve Ludzik. I can do the Tony Tanti and Rich Preston and a Glen Sharpley? Maybe Ron Sedlbauer and J.P. Bordeleau? Here try this. Why don't you give a list of the best 3rd and 4th line players going back to 1926 that are worthy of your list. That shouldn't be too hard.

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There is another possibility here, though it is remote.

What if Bowman is on the verge of acquiring a top six forward (such as Jarome Iginla or Martin Hanzal)?   What if Mark McNeill is part of the expected trade package?  

In this situation, it might make sense to leave McNeill where he is until the deal is done.

 

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Creature1958 said on 6 minutes ago:

So I'll add in Peter Marsh,Tim Higgins,Steve Ludzik. I can do the Tony Tanti and Rich Preston and a Glen Sharpley? Maybe Ron Sedlbauer and J.P. Bordeleau? Here try this. Why don't you give a list of the best 3rd and 4th line players going back to 1926 that are worthy of your list. That shouldn't be too hard.

How many "Goal" magazines did you have to go through to come up with Glen Sharpley?

 

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Puckjim said on 2 minutes ago:

How many "Goal" magazines did you have to go through to come up with Glen Sharpley?

 

NONE but guess what? I do have a stack of them along with Hockey Illustrated and Hockey scene. I may need a ****ton of carrots for my eyes but I don't need that ginkabolola stuff for my memory.

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Creature1958 said on 36 minutes ago:

NONE but guess what? I do have a stack of them along with Hockey Illustrated and Hockey scene. I may need a ****ton of carrots for my eyes but I don't need that ginkabolola stuff for my memory.

I have a "Goal" that is signed by the 1986 Edmonton Oilers.

Autographs were easy back at Stadium.

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mvr said on 5 hours ago:

You're always the voice of sober second thought here, Bob.   I always respect and look forward to your posts.

As you wrote above, it is odd that the team last summer valued McNeill enough to re-sign him.  You're right that they must still see something in him.  

Still, the whole situation around this player is weird.   

McNeill has become a prototypical fourth-liner who checks just about every box you would want for that role.   He has the size/build, the defensive two-way game, the penalty killing experience and the ability to win a faceoff.   He is only 23, which means his best years are still ahead of him.   He needs to play.

If Bowman recalled Baun instead, I would understand.  He also checks many of the same boxes.

 Abbott is a small one-dimensional type -  and the Hawks are loaded with this type of player already.   When Hinostroza moves back to the fourth line, there will three fourth liners (including Tootoo) all under 5' 10."     Abbott has played one NHL game and is 28 years old.  

 

I respect and enjoy your posts too my friend! I just don't get Abbott either,I'd rather see Mash to be honest,at least he isn't a head shorter than everybody on the other team!LOL!

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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mvr said on 1 hour ago:

There is another possibility here, though it is remote.

What if Bowman is on the verge of acquiring a top six forward (such as Jarome Iginla or Martin Hanzal)?   What if Mark McNeill is part of the expected trade package?  

In this situation, it might make sense to leave McNeill where he is until the deal is done.

 

Haven't heard a peep about Hanzal, but there are a few articles about Iginla floating around.....but every article poses the same legit question, and it's about his cap number.

Also...if the idea is to put Iginla with Toews....does he have enough in those 39 years old legs to skate that many minutes? Then again, there was the prevailing "Hossa on LITR" argument, so....

Maybe Iggy gets a push in the back trying to get that elusive Cup...his numbers are way down, but then again he's pulling that Avalanche jersey over his head every work night.

As for Abbott....I have no idea. I just know it's anybody BUT McNeil, 

Finally...Ben Eager? Million dollar skating stride, 10 cent brain. He was OK in my book but for the fact he was always skating beautifully to the penalty box, and always at just the wrong time.

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Not only is this scrub Abbott playing tomorrow, he's on the 1st line with Toews and Hossa with Hartman moving to 3rd line and Hinostroza down to the 4th line.

Q has gone nuts again or went back to the pull names out of a hat and see what sticks method. 

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MERPER said on 6 minutes ago:

Not only is this scrub Abbott playing tomorrow, he's on the 1st line with Toews and Hossa with Hartman moving to 3rd line and Hinostroza down to the 4th line.

Q has gone nuts again or went back to the pull names out of a hat and see what sticks method. 

Two thoughts Merp....

Where Abbott starts and where he finishes...and how much time he gets remain to be seen...

And really....when the Coach watches his team lose 5 of 6 with a faltering offense, it's time to do something other than run the status quo out there yet again. 

We may not agree with the changes as they appear on paper, but I'd rather see a failed shake-up as opposed to doing nothing.

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 8 minutes ago:

Two thoughts Merp....

Where Abbott starts and where he finishes...and how much time he gets remain to be seen...

And really....when the Coach watches his team lose 5 of 6 with a faltering offense, it's time to do something other than run the status quo out there yet again. 

We may not agree with the changes as they appear on paper, but I'd rather see a failed shake-up as opposed to doing nothing.

 

all fair points...

to borrow a line from Family Guy it just really grinds my gears when a guy who just gets called up, who has no signs of being a NHL player, gets a spot right away on the 1st line. or whatever we want to call the toews line these days

Start him on t he 4th and make him earn his way up. 

I guess what really irks me here is that Motte was sent down because he was struggling but since his injury he was relegated to 4th line minutes, didn't get a shot at one of the top 2 lines since returning. When he was injured he was on that toews line and was playing well. It just seems like more/typical Q stubbornness and unfairness. 

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MERPER said on 13 minutes ago:

all fair points...

to borrow a line from Family Guy it just really grinds my gears when a guy who just gets called up, who has no signs of being a NHL player, gets a spot right away on the 1st line. or whatever we want to call the toews line these days

Start him on t he 4th and make him earn his way up. 

I guess what really irks me here is that Motte was sent down because he was struggling but since his injury he was relegated to 4th line minutes, didn't get a shot at one of the top 2 lines since returning. When he was injured he was on that toews line and was playing well. It just seems like more/typical Q stubbornness and unfairness. 

Yeah well, Q being Q...Abbott is just as likely to work his way back to Rockford as he is to stick on the Toews line anyways.

It's a bit of a nose-dive right now. Columbus is on the brink of history with the tear they are on, yet they are very much in the same area-code as Chicago.

The Hawks had their franchise-record 12 gamer last year and that set them up to make the playoffs easily. 

I see the GM and Coach agreed to give 5-6 rookies a decent shot, and now there is some filtering going on. 

Bowman is not shy about making a move before the TDL...MVR might be onto something with a trade in the works

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Icaddiedforstosh said on 2 hours ago:

Two thoughts Merp....

Where Abbott starts and where he finishes...and how much time he gets remain to be seen...

And really....when the Coach watches his team lose 5 of 6 with a faltering offense, it's time to do something other than run the status quo out there yet again. 

We may not agree with the changes as they appear on paper, but I'd rather see a failed shake-up as opposed to doing nothing.

And coach's response to multiple loses is  to punish guys that played really well (Hino and Hart) but continue audition for that elusive winger that can make 10mils player to look like at least 5mils. Sure why not. 

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irmaks said on 1 hour ago:

And coach's response to multiple loses is  to punish guys that played really well (Hino and Hart) but continue audition for that elusive winger that can make 10mils player to look like at least 5mils. Sure why not. 

You can score from the 3rd/4th lines too. Pretty sure that's exactly where both of them where in the Vancouver game and other games that they have both contributed in during the season. And Q is always changing up his lines during games. Where you start is absolutely no indication of where you will end up with him. Maybe he's trying to shake things up and find different chemistry and some scoring. The team's been losing so what can it hurt. 

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