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Who are you referring to with the last part?

I've never anointed him anything and I've never compared him to Kane or Panarin. All I've done is mention his achievements so far in his career without any embellishment what so ever and I've said he has a good shot to make the team. 

 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Remember last year when anyone even had slightly high hopes for Panarin and voiced them - they pretty much got the same treatment? Now one top 10 in scoring season later - he's unmovable. 

 

I get what you are saying and if Vesey - who hasn't played an NHL game either - was supposed to be someone who could make the top 6 - it don't see it as that far fetched that Motte or Schmaltz can't bring what he "could" How many top picks haven't brought what they were "supposed" to bring to the team that drafted them? 

 

The kids in Pitt all played partial seasons - Bryan Rust was called up a few seasons ago didn't wow anyone, got sent back down and called back up. He was up for half the season and had about a dozen points. Then he turns around and contributes in a big way in that Cup run. 

 

The new NCAA kids have just as much of a chance as contributing as anyone else - and iI think its laughable that anyone is assuming they have to be Kane or Panarin good. Especially considering this time last summer Panarin wasn't much else to some people but that Russian kid. lol. 

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^ I remember when people got the same treatment for posing their uncertainty on TT too. It works both ways.

 

Also, the "Panarin will be good" folk (as are the "Insert-Any-Prospect" will be good folk) are always in the majority.

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Remember last year when anyone even had slightly high hopes for Panarin and voiced them - they pretty much got the same treatment? Now one top 10 in scoring season later - he's unmovable. 

 

I get what you are saying and if Vesey - who hasn't played an NHL game either - was supposed to be someone who could make the top 6 - it don't see it as that far fetched that Motte or Schmaltz can't bring what he "could" How many top picks haven't brought what they were "supposed" to bring to the team that drafted them? 

 

The kids in Pitt all played partial seasons - Bryan Rust was called up a few seasons ago didn't wow anyone, got sent back down and called back up. He was up for half the season and had about a dozen points. Then he turns around and contributes in a big way in that Cup run. 

 

The new NCAA kids have just as much of a chance as contributing as anyone else - and iI think its laughable that anyone is assuming they have to be Kane or Panarin good. Especially considering this time last summer Panarin wasn't much else to some people but that Russian kid. lol. 

I do remember last summer,I remember many past summers. I was told I was drinking the Panarin Kool-Aid because I expected good results from the most sought after and one of the very best players the KHL had to offer. I can't say I expected or predicted the outstanding young player he turned out to be but I did expect a talented player,I didn't know how he'd fit into Q's demanding system but he fit like a glove. Many veterans and young players alike were unable to fit Q's system and IMO,the vets were too set in their ways and the young players who didn't fit weren't committed enough,other young players like Saad,Panarin and a few others fit due to a higher commitment level.

 Michael Kempny was also the most sought after and one of the best D-men in the KHL,I can only hope for similar results.........guess I'm now drinkin' the Kempny flavor of Kool-Aid!

 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!    

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The new NCAA kids have just as much of a chance as contributing as anyone else - and iI think its laughable that anyone is assuming they have to be Kane or Panarin good. Especially considering this time last summer Panarin wasn't much else to some people but that Russian kid. lol. 

 

If you're expecting Motte to do all the following: stick on the first line the whole season, score 20 goals, be defensively responsible, and show consistent grit....you're in essence expecting him to be Patrick Kane (his first year).

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I don't think anyone but fans expect either of the two to make the first line. I think they'll be 3/4 liners to start and get some PP time to get their point totals and confidence up. Then fill in on a line above theirs when there's injury or fatigue. Hawks don't got many options, and I think this year finally, this will make or break half the kids in the farm!!!

 

This is exactly right and are realistic expectations.

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You are not allowed to even MENTION that goon (you-can-guess-who) as a Hawk. I hope he never dresses. Almost as bad as if we had Sean Avery on the team. Unbelievable he's even a Hawk. What was the FO thinking?

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

Tootoo

 

Okay, now that I'm done being a complete Richard-weed ;), my point in mentioning Wiz' punching bag is that like Gorilla Salad, there is a chance his skills can be utilized--especially as motivation for McNeill/Hartman.  "You go to the front of the net or we'll get someone who will do it".

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If you're expecting Motte to do all the following: stick on the first line the whole season, score 20 goals, be defensively responsible, and show consistent grit....you're in essence expecting him to be Patrick Kane (his first year).

If Motte or Schmaltz make the team,they'll be joining a MUCH better squad than a young Patrick Kane did. If they're ready,playing with a well rested JT and Big Hoss or even a well rested JT and Kane could give them some confidence,I'm not saying either IS ready but no one can say they're not either.

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!  

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Also, the "Panarin will be good" folk (as are the "Insert-Any-Prospect" will be good folk) are always in the majority.

 

actually....i am not sure about the majority anymore these days. 

 

 

myself...i would much prefer going to bed at night thinking we still have a great shot of winning it all again.

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The kids in Pitt all played partial seasons - Bryan Rust was called up a few seasons ago didn't wow anyone, got sent back down and called back up. He was up for half the season and had about a dozen points. Then he turns around and contributes in a big way in that Cup run. 

 

The new NCAA kids have just as much of a chance as contributing as anyone else - and iI think its laughable that anyone is assuming they have to be Kane or Panarin good. Especially considering this time last summer Panarin wasn't much else to some people but that Russian kid. lol. 

 

Rust had a total of 55 NHL games played (over two seasons), plus 45 games played in the AHL.

 

Motte has a total of 0 NHL games played, plus 5 games played in the AHL.

 

Rust also has 3 years age-wise on Motte.

 

And Panarin had a plethora of KHL experience before coming here.

Edited by Granada
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If Motte or Schmaltz make the team,they'll be joining a MUCH better squad than a young Patrick Kane did. If they're ready,playing with a well rested JT and Big Hoss or even a well rested JT and Kane could give them some confidence,I'm not saying either IS ready but no one can say they're not either.

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!  

 

Then how come TT never stuck there?

 

I'm sorry, I just think people are jumping the gun on some of these kids. Just because we have glaring holes on the top line doesn't automatically make some of these guys ready.

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Then how come TT never stuck there?

 

 

 

because motte and shmaltz are 2 different players than TT.

 

try and pretend to show at least a glimmer of hope at least once in a while.

 

...

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If you're expecting Motte to do all the following: stick on the first line the whole season, score 20 goals, be defensively responsible, and show consistent grit....you're in essence expecting him to be Patrick Kane (his first year).

Not sure how you got anything you wrote out of me saying they have as much chance of contributing as anyone else. Lots of people are saying - oh get Hudler or (insert vet) and pop them into the first line. But just because someone is a vet and can score doesn't mean they will fit in with this team.

 

At the end of the day no one knows for sure how a person with no NHL experience is going to play in the NHL and with a new system. Rangers gave Ritchie a lot of money to do what he did in Tampa and Dallas and he didn't. You just never know. Nothing is guaranteed either way.  

 

Most people would agree that they'd take Saader back and yet his first full season he had didn't get anywhere near Kaner's rookie numbers. And who ever said they expected these kids to come in and be rookie Patrick Kane??? Saad's still not rookie Patrick Kane. Hell, Forsberg in Nash put up 63 points in his rookie campaign including a PO hat trick. That' still wasn't rookie Patrick Kane numbers. 

 

So no "in essence" I'm not expecting him or anyone else to be rookie Patrick Kane. Please stop telling me I don't mean what I'm writing. I'm writing and saying - I have no problem believing that Motte or Schmaltz or heck - any of the newbies - can come in and contribute and be useful on this team next year. If that means providing secondary scoring in the bottom six or being serviceable like a Shaw (not a ton of production but serviceable) in the top 6. I don't ever expect a newbie to come in be rookie Patrick Kane. 

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Then how come TT never stuck there?

 

I'm sorry, I just think people are jumping the gun on some of these kids. Just because we have glaring holes on the top line doesn't automatically make some of these guys ready.

TT did not play with a well rested JT and Hossa,he played with a gassed JT and Hossa. TT is far from a bust also,mid-teens goals, 30+pts and decent defensive play from a 21yro isn't bad and that's why the Canes ate Bickell's contract to get him. TT's not working out as we hoped has absolutely no baring on how any of the other young guys work out. Dismissing players you've never seen play at the NHL level is jumping the gun also IMO.

No one including myself has predicted either player will come in and tear things up,I've just said they'll get a chance and one might seize the opportunity.......they've both seized every opportunity presented to them so far! 

 

 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!! 

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Rust had a total of 55 NHL games played (over two seasons), plus 45 games played in the AHL.

 

Motte has a total of 0 NHL games played, plus 5 games played in the AHL.

 

Rust also has 3 years age-wise on Motte.

 

And Panarin had a plethora of KHL experience before coming here.

And Vesey has the exact same NHL experience as Motte and you said he was the answer to the Hawks prayers and would make them a Cup contending team cause he would slot right in to 1LW. So you "jumping the gun" is fair play?

 

Dude - absolutely no one thinks these kids are the next coming of Patrick Kane - but goodness gracious - if Vesey can slot into the 1LW slot in your mind -it seems a bit hypocritical of you to try and put expectations that absolutely no one I've seen has expressed as a view - onto these other kids. 

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I think there should be some kind of poll or something that would give a clearer picture of how everyone expects the rookies this year. I am with Granada in a sense that the board puts too much expectation, slotting them in, for these rookies. Maybe the board is now more optimist and glass-full than ever?

 

the scenario this season for the 1LW will be like last year, a revolving door of different players, inevitably ending with a high-value vet acquired around the TDL.

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And Vesey has the exact same NHL experience as Motte and you said he was the answer to the Hawks prayers and would make them a Cup contending team cause he would slot right in to 1LW. So you "jumping the gun" is fair play?

 

Dude - absolutely no one thinks these kids are the next coming of Patrick Kane - but goodness gracious - if Vesey can slot into the 1LW slot in your mind -it seems a bit hypocritical of you to try and put expectations that absolutely no one I've seen has expressed as a view - onto these other kids. 

To be objective,Vesey is a few years older with a bigger frame but to be objective I also have to notice Motte going from leading his team to the frozen four,going directly to Rockford and being their best player in a short reg and post season stint and then going directly to team USA and being very effective against NHL players. Schmaltz also led his team to the NCAA title without Luke Johnson in the line-up........Hobie Baker awards are nifty but gimmie that championship hardware any time baby! 

Schmaltz might be the potential higher end talent but this Tyler Motte kid really 'gets it' and has ever since he led his HS team to a state title. 

 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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I think there should be some kind of poll or something that would give a clearer picture of how everyone expects the rookies this year. I am with Granada in a sense that the board puts too much expectation, slotting them in, for these rookies. Maybe the board is now more optimist and glass-full than ever?

 

the scenario this season for the 1LW will be like last year, a revolving door of different players, inevitably ending with a high-value vet acquired around the TDL.

 

I wouldn't bet on it!

 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

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To be objective,Vesey is a few years older with a bigger frame but to be objective I also have to notice Motte going from leading his team to the frozen four,going directly to Rockford and being their best player in a short reg and post season stint and then going directly to team USA and being very effective against NHL players. Schmaltz also led his team to the NCAA title without Luke Johnson in the line-up........Hobie Baker awards are nifty but gimmie that championship hardware any time baby! 

Schmaltz might be the potential higher end talent but this Tyler Motte kid really 'gets it' and has ever since he led his HS team to a state title. 

 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Absolutely. Vesey has a lot of things that lead you to believe he can slot into the top 6 on a team. But that is not by any stretch of my imagination a sure thing. You don't know what someone can or can't do in the NHL until they get there. 

 

I get where people are coming from for sure. Every prospect isn't going to make it - even though we want them to. But I'm just not sure why some people get to be sure of some and some people can't be optimistic about others without it being an issue. 

 

I'm not sure either Motte or Schmaltz can play in the top 6 this season (or ever) - but that doesn't mean that they can't contribute to this team doing well. I don't think my thinking that is out of the realm of reality. lol. 

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And Vesey has the exact same NHL experience as Motte and you said he was the answer to the Hawks prayers and would make them a Cup contending team cause he would slot right in to 1LW. So you "jumping the gun" is fair play?

 

Dude - absolutely no one thinks these kids are the next coming of Patrick Kane - but goodness gracious - if Vesey can slot into the 1LW slot in your mind -it seems a bit hypocritical of you to try and put expectations that absolutely no one I've seen has expressed as a view - onto these other kids. 

 

Vesey was coveted by multiple NHL teams and his size and speed made him ideal before any of our prospects. To sit here and pretend he wouldn't have been our best prospect had we gotten him is utterly absurd.

 

Again, yes, you do -- if you are expecting him to stick on the 1LW and score 20 goals. Not to call anyone out, but look at the previous page -- no hypocrisy at all and yes, it has been suggested. Try reading the prior posts before jumping in and labeling someone hypocritical. Also, it's been suggested that Toews will play between two rookies next season also in other threads on the forum. At least I introduce stances I've actually seen on this particular board (not HF boards or anywhere else). This is the only board I visit.

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I think there should be some kind of poll or something that would give a clearer picture of how everyone expects the rookies this year. I am with Granada in a sense that the board puts too much expectation, slotting them in, for these rookies. Maybe the board is now more optimist and glass-full than ever?

 

the scenario this season for the 1LW will be like last year, a revolving door of different players, inevitably ending with a high-value vet acquired around the TDL.

 

Thank you Squishy. I think the board has always been like this. Every single prospect is always thought of as the "next coming." Now a guy who's played 5 AHL games is going to stick on the 1st Line all year -- it's par for the course.

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TT did not play with a well rested JT and Hossa,he played with a gassed JT and Hossa. TT is far from a bust also,mid-teens goals, 30+pts and decent defensive play from a 21yro isn't bad and that's why the Canes ate Bickell's contract to get him. TT's not working out as we hoped has absolutely no baring on how any of the other young guys work out. Dismissing players you've never seen play at the NHL level is jumping the gun also IMO.

No one including myself has predicted either player will come in and tear things up,I've just said they'll get a chance and one might seize the opportunity.......they've both seized every opportunity presented to them so far! 

 

 

 

 

GO HAWKS!!!!!! 

 

So now we're blaming TT's struggles on Toews and Hossa. Well, at least that's new compared to the "Q never gave him a chance" excuse.

 

TT was a bust here. The guy was labeled the next Kane (because of his size and skill), but he never materialized here and he was traded (rightfully so in my view). The end.

 

Again, I'm not dismissing them: I am being realistic. I don't expect Motte to stick on the 1st line the entire regular season; he might see time there, but I'm not expecting him to stick there because it would be equivalent to expecting him to be the next Kane; the guy would have to be, in order to stick on the first line all year without having any NHL experience and being 20/21 years old -- I'm sorry, but it's true.

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Not sure how you got anything you wrote out of me saying they have as much chance of contributing as anyone else. Lots of people are saying - oh get Hudler or (insert vet) and pop them into the first line. But just because someone is a vet and can score doesn't mean they will fit in with this team.

 

At the end of the day no one knows for sure how a person with no NHL experience is going to play in the NHL and with a new system. Rangers gave Ritchie a lot of money to do what he did in Tampa and Dallas and he didn't. You just never know. Nothing is guaranteed either way.  

 

Most people would agree that they'd take Saader back and yet his first full season he had didn't get anywhere near Kaner's rookie numbers. And who ever said they expected these kids to come in and be rookie Patrick Kane??? Saad's still not rookie Patrick Kane. Hell, Forsberg in Nash put up 63 points in his rookie campaign including a PO hat trick. That' still wasn't rookie Patrick Kane numbers. 

 

So no "in essence" I'm not expecting him or anyone else to be rookie Patrick Kane. Please stop telling me I don't mean what I'm writing. I'm writing and saying - I have no problem believing that Motte or Schmaltz or heck - any of the newbies - can come in and contribute and be useful on this team next year. If that means providing secondary scoring in the bottom six or being serviceable like a Shaw (not a ton of production but serviceable) in the top 6. I don't ever expect a newbie to come in be rookie Patrick Kane. 

 

You're stating the obvious as far as newly acquired vets and prospects go.

 

Being "serviceable" on the 1st line is exactly why Shaw didn't stick there.

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JMO....there's reason to hope things are not so dire, and that's simply because there are 5 top 6 players coming back.

 

Sure there's a hole in that 6th spot.... everyone would be happy if there was a proven stud there. But 5 out of 6 isn't the worst case scenario.

 

Chicago scored a second-best 235 goals in the West. This team has never had a problem scoring.

 

Toews/Kane/AP/AA and Hoss (who missed a good 1/4 of the year) scored 137 goals.

 

That number leaves out the hole on LW altogether. Without digging up every guys' number who took a shot at that LW.....lets go conservative and guess they got 14 goals all year from that spot. I mean, Ladd had 8 himself.

 

That puts the top two lines, with major issues, at 151....the rest of the team (D men included) chipped in 84.

 

Honestly, I'd be more concerned about the 27 goals missing from players we know are gone (TT, Shaw)....than fretting that there's little chance the major problem at LW can't produce the 20+ goals we will seem to need to compete.

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^ Not just about goal scoring. It's about that 1LW all around game.

 

You mentioned 20+ goals more than once.

 

As in, that winger has to be as good offensively as Patrick Kane. Who was demoted to the 3rd line for several games in his rookie year, until he understood he was expected to play a 2-way game.

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