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Creature1958 said on 9 hours ago:

We are lazy so stop trying to get us to do more then we need to. Finger cramps suck :blink:

 

More like I am too lazy to move the posts....kinda like this 'Hawks team trying to win a game.

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Over the summer, I made the mistake here of suggesting the team unload one of its tiny perimeter prospects, Debrincat, and go out and get a big guy like Tom Wilson to do some of the real lifting.    

Everyone scoffed, so I shut my big mouth.     

Since that time, the kid Debrincat has impressed me greatly with his grit and determination.   He is an NHL player without doubt - a pretty good one - much better than I thought he would be.  Clearly, I underestimated his value.

Nevertheless, I would still make the same trade today.    

Tom Wilson had several points tonight and imposed his will on the puny Hawks every shift he was on the ice.  

It is obvious, at least to me, that the Hawks have no answer for a player like this.  Physicality still matters.  

The Hawks remain loaded with pretty passers who avoid contact at all costs. They are too small (especially at forward) to provide any real pushback against the big teams.  

 

 

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mvr said on 4 hours ago:

Over the summer, I made the mistake here of suggesting the team unload one of its tiny perimeter prospects, Debrincat, and go out and get a big guy like Tom Wilson to do some of the real lifting.    

Everyone scoffed, so I shut my big mouth.     

Since that time, the kid Debrincat has impressed me greatly with his grit and determination.   He is an NHL player without doubt - a pretty good one - much better than I thought he would be.  Clearly, I underestimated his value.

Nevertheless, I would still make the same trade today.    

Tom Wilson had several points tonight and imposed his will on the puny Hawks every shift he was on the ice.  

It is obvious, at least to me, that the Hawks have no answer for a player like this.  Physicality still matters.  

The Hawks remain loaded with pretty passers who avoid contact at all costs. They are too small (especially at forward) to provide any real pushback against the big teams.  

 

 

Wilson had an ok game but his 3pts in the 1st weren't impressive, especially his goal, very weak and lucky. Plus he's playing with 2 star players. 

I agree he'd be nice to have on the Hawks but you don't give up a guy like DCat. I would trade Schmaltz and  Hartman though, even toss in Hino. 

Edited by OldTimeHawky

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mvr said on 22 minutes ago:

Over the summer, I made the mistake here of suggesting the team unload one of its tiny perimeter prospects, Debrincat, and go out and get a big guy like Tom Wilson to do some of the real lifting.    

Everyone scoffed, so I shut my big mouth.     

Since that time, the kid Debrincat has impressed me greatly with his grit and determination.   He is an NHL player without doubt - a pretty good one - much better than I thought he would be.  Clearly, I underestimated his value.

Nevertheless, I would still make the same trade today.    

Tom Wilson had several points tonight and imposed his will on the puny Hawks every shift he was on the ice.  

It is obvious, at least to me, that the Hawks have no answer for a player like this.  Physicality still matters.  

The Hawks remain loaded with pretty passers who avoid contact at all costs. They are too small (especially at forward) to provide any real pushback against the big teams.  

 

 

Wilson played a lot with Ovechkin and Backstrom tonight. Yes, he had a 4 point game but he still only has 4 goals on the year. Players like him have a purpose, but he's far from an elite player. Against these weak Hawks he looks good but you are right about the physicality, some other teams have players of a similar ilk to keep guys like him in check. Bruisers who can still play a bit. I'd be wary of overpaying for such a player but it was wise for Edmonton to pick up a guy like Maroon last year for nothing. Hawks could have done the same.

 

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tincup61 said on 18 hours ago:

Wilson played a lot with Ovechkin and Backstrom tonight. Yes, he had a 4 point game but he still only has 4 goals on the year. Players like him have a purpose, but he's far from an elite player. Against these weak Hawks he looks good but you are right about the physicality, some other teams have players of a similar ilk to keep guys like him in check. Bruisers who can still play a bit. I'd be wary of overpaying for such a player but it was wise for Edmonton to pick up a guy like Maroon last year for nothing. Hawks could have done the same.

 

 

 

The Hawks likely lost the Toni Tanti -- Curt Fraser trade.   Tanti became a first line star in Vancouver, while Fraser was never more than a third line guy here.

The Doug Crossman -- Behn Wilson trade was certainly a downgrade in talent (though the team at the time already had Doug Wilson and Bob Murray on defence).   Mike O'Connell for Al Secord was probably at best a wash.

There are times when a team is overloaded with one type of player and is lacking in another.   Even if the team "loses" a trade, it can win.   

This team needs a Wilson type.   It does not need yet another small perimeter forward, no matter how talented.   Kane is already here.

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mvr said on 5 minutes ago:

 

The Hawks likely lost the Toni Tanti -- Curt Fraser trade.   Tanti became a first line star in Vancouver, while Fraser was never more than a third line guy here.

The Doug Crossman -- Behn Wilson trade was certainly a downgrade in talent (though the team at the time already had Doug Wilson and Bob Murray on defence).   Mike O'Connell for Al Secord was probably at best a wash.

There are times when a team is overloaded with one type of player and is lacking in another.   Even if the team "loses" a trade, it can win.   

This team needs a Wilson type.   It does not need yet another small perimeter forward, no matter how talented.   Kane is already here.

That's why Stan got rid of Panarin for Saad, Saad isn't looking to good right now but he has more goals than Pan if the Hawks make the playoffs that's were he'll shine, plus he's still playing great defensively and on the PK, something Pan couldn't do.

You make it sound like the Hawks are really small but the only forwards under 6' are Kane, Debrincat, and Hartman, and 2 of those 3 go to the net hard. Schmaltz is just over 6' but he's skinny and plays soft. 

I'd offer Buffalo Schmaltz, Hartman, a prospect/pick, and get Ryan O'Reilly for the 2C and move Anisimov back to 3C. Ryan is gritty, over 200lbs, good hands, and great at faceoffs. 

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OldTimeHawky said on 4 minutes ago:

That's why Stan got rid of Panarin for Saad, Saad isn't looking to good right now but he has more goals than Pan if the Hawks make the playoffs that's were he'll shine, plus he's still playing great defensively and on the PK, something Pan couldn't do.

You make it sound like the Hawks are really small but the only forwards under 6' are Kane, Debrincat, and Hartman, and 2 of those 3 go to the net hard. Schmaltz is just over 6' but he's skinny and plays soft. 

I'd offer Buffalo Schmaltz, Hartman, a prospect/pick, and get Ryan O'Reilly for the 2C and move Anisimov back to 3C. Ryan is gritty, over 200lbs, good hands, and great at faceoffs. 

I like that trade.

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iknowpuck said on 45 minutes ago:

I like that trade.

Makes sense for both teams, Buffalo gets 2 young guys who can play any forward position, adds depth, and cap space, and the Hawks get a legit top6 center. 

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OldTimeHawky said on 2 hours ago:

Makes sense for both teams, Buffalo gets 2 young guys who can play any forward position, adds depth, and cap space, and the Hawks get a legit top6 center. 

I like it too, and this is why. I may come off like a wet blanket here, but I feel Stan doesn’t have enough Canadians with heart. He’s been getting way too many of these soft perimeter players, and I feel a good ol Canadian boy like O’Reilly would do wonders here. I’d like to see Schmaltz, Hartman, Hino, Kero, Murphy, AA, Panik, all moved out at some point here. I’d rather have Saad or Hayden or a Bickell type over them. Even Wingels and Bouma have been better then the aforementioned bunch. And that bunch is why we’re losin!!!

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Kane is on the ice most nights for about 20-25 plus minutes/game.  If Debrincat plays 15-20, the team has a 5'7" /  5' 8" forward on the ice for about 3/4 of the game.  

Schmaltz tends to play with one or the other, which means the team has two forwards on the same line who weigh less than 180.    None of the three can throw a check, retrieve a puck from the corners, or stand in front of the goalie.    

Unfortunately, the players expected to compensate for the team's lack of size and assertiveness    - ie Panik, Anisimov, Toews, Saad, Sharp -  have not been able to deliver the physical game consistently.    

It is not difficult to defend against a team with so many small forwards and so little aggression or attitude.

  

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mvr said on 41 minutes ago:

Kane is on the ice most nights for about 20-25 plus minutes/game.  If Debrincat plays 15-20, the team has a 5'7" /  5' 8" forward on the ice for about 3/4 of the game.  

Schmaltz tends to play with one or the other, which means the team has two forwards on the same line who weigh less than 180.    None of the three can throw a check, retrieve a puck from the corners, or stand in front of the goalie.    

Unfortunately, the players expected to compensate for the team's lack of size and assertiveness    - ie Panik, Anisimov, Toews, Saad, Sharp -  have not been able to deliver the physical game consistently.    

It is not difficult to defend against a team with so many small forwards and so little aggression or attitude.

  

Good point/post, MVR.

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OldTimeHawky said on 15 hours ago:

That's why Stan got rid of Panarin for Saad, Saad isn't looking to good right now but he has more goals than Pan if the Hawks make the playoffs that's were he'll shine, plus he's still playing great defensively and on the PK, something Pan couldn't do.

You make it sound like the Hawks are really small but the only forwards under 6' are Kane, Debrincat, and Hartman, and 2 of those 3 go to the net hard. Schmaltz is just over 6' but he's skinny and plays soft. 

I'd offer Buffalo Schmaltz, Hartman, a prospect/pick, and get Ryan O'Reilly for the 2C and move Anisimov back to 3C. Ryan is gritty, over 200lbs, good hands, and great at faceoffs. 

I'd do that too.

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Big-T said on 12 hours ago:

I like it too, and this is why. I may come off like a wet blanket here, but I feel Stan doesn’t have enough Canadians with heart. He’s been getting way too many of these soft perimeter players, and I feel a good ol Canadian boy like O’Reilly would do wonders here. I’d like to see Schmaltz, Hartman, Hino, Kero, Murphy, AA, Panik, all moved out at some point here. I’d rather have Saad or Hayden or a Bickell type over them. Even Wingels and Bouma have been better then the aforementioned bunch. And that bunch is why we’re losin!!!

I'd agree with all on this list except maybe (and I stress, maybe) AA. AA is a strange case because he's looked exactly like what this team has always lacked at times, as far as big body who can make a living in front of the net; but I do wonder about his consistency and his playoff intensity, as well as his ability to be effective in a bottom six role with bottom six players. However, his cost is decent/fair, and by removing him, you wouldn't be adding center depth; just replacing it.

I could be wrong, but I doubt Bowman tries to move Murphy as long as he's the GM -- or at the very least, a couple years into his contract. That's his baby now, whether he likes it or not. He's fighting to save his job; and if he moves Murphy so soon after trading Hammer (which Q openly complained about), he'd be sealing his fate so to speak.

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Word out of Ottawa is that the ownership group there is preparing to blow the team up and start again.    Several of the core players carrying the no-trade deals, including the defenseman, Karlson, have been asked in recent days to provide a list of suitable potential destinations.

One name who might be an option here is their second line centre, Derick Brassard.   Brassard is 30 years old, and he has two years remaining on a contract at $5 M/year. Brassard has never been a top-end goal scorer, but he is a consistent two-way type with good speed and some size who can be counted on for 40 points each year.   Should the Senators be willing to eat some of the contract to get a deal done, he might be a worthwhile target to fill that third line centre slot for the next two years.   

I would offer some combination of Hinostroza, Kempny, Pokka, or Panik, and perhaps a draft pick or college prospect.   If Ottawa is dumping contracts, they might bite.

 

 

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I know it’ll never ever happen, but Karlsson would be ever so sweet for any team. I doubt he goes anywhere. Brassard would be nice, however, it would take Schmaltz and a pick to get him, no one wants our AHL guys for their key guys. They may retain half for that package!!!

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Big-T said on 10 hours ago:

I know it’ll never ever happen, but Karlsson would be ever so sweet for any team. I doubt he goes anywhere. Brassard would be nice, however, it would take Schmaltz and a pick to get him, no one wants our AHL guys for their key guys. They may retain half for that package!!!

lol, that's what I thought when I read that too. sure would be sweet to get 65... no way that ever happens unless he forces a trade, though.

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mvr said on On 12/7/2017 at 8:53 PM:

Kane is on the ice most nights for about 20-25 plus minutes/game.  If Debrincat plays 15-20, the team has a 5'7" /  5' 8" forward on the ice for about 3/4 of the game.  

Schmaltz tends to play with one or the other, which means the team has two forwards on the same line who weigh less than 180.    None of the three can throw a check, retrieve a puck from the corners, or stand in front of the goalie.    

Unfortunately, the players expected to compensate for the team's lack of size and assertiveness    - ie Panik, Anisimov, Toews, Saad, Sharp -  have not been able to deliver the physical game consistently.    

It is not difficult to defend against a team with so many small forwards and so little aggression or attitude.

  

Weighing 180 or less what is holding them back from weight training? Building muscle mass that could help them be a bit more aggressive and not so easy to take the puck away? I'm not saying to go stand in front of the net but it will help retrieve a puck from the corners or even throw a check. That is something we just haven't heard about coming into a new season about how they worked out or even what they worked on in the off season to improve. That is a thing I have noticed about the smaller players they have not changed a thing from the year before but just that little thing could change their game a lot.

Edited by Creature1958

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