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Stan As Gm

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cant find it ......The sentiment .... Q is stubborn   ...yea true ....to a fault ......( its not stubborn its who the hell are you)  The sentiment  players underperformed ...yea true big time ..... scheme or style ...... Jesus they have to pass catch and shoot at any speed before they start talking break outs and push the puck ..... ELEPHANT ..... got to figure Toews Kieth and Seabrook are only going to decline ..( this has more to do with attitude ) ..  Brings up a choice in my mind .... picks or maintain to the eventual end ...gracious....like the Sedin's did ..... or retool for once last try ...

lot of in between options ...

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Hoping Bowman takes a bit from the page of David Poyle, GM of the Predators, in the sense that I hope he trade rapes a few other teams and gets a much more talented, physical, and deep roster. 

Bowman has to nail this upcoming draft and have a killer offseason to achieve getting this team back to where it needs to be. 

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I know I’m the SB apologist around here.  No GM hits on every move.  But...when will some recognize his 3 cups?  How are GM’s like Stevie Y and Poile (and Nill doing)?  Still read, not here, how great of a job they are doing.  Just saying.

 

Edited by iknowpuck

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iknowpuck said on 3 minutes ago:

.  But...when will some recognize Just saying.

 

Nah everyone around the league knows .....thing is  i am super lazy when it comes to ass kissin & double dealing  so hey what matrix go around ....getting to seem all the same 

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PuckProphet said on 3 minutes ago:

Nah everyone around the league knows .....thing is  i am super lazy when it comes to ass kissin & double dealing  so hey what matrix go around ....getting to seem all the same 

Just count to three.

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iknowpuck said on 13 hours ago:

I know I’m the SB apologist around here.  No GM hits on every move.  But...when will some recognize his 3 cups?  How are GM’s like Stevie Y and Poile (and Nill doing)?  Still read, not here, how great of a job they are doing.  Just saying.

 

But remember that happened when coach had a power to make  decisions, so it wasn’t Stan. Last year when coach didn’t have that power we finally saw real Stan, accountant without hockey experience. But everything will change next year, since coach will have his power back. 

Edited by irmaks

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iknowpuck said on 13 hours ago:

I know I’m the SB apologist around here.  No GM hits on every move.  But...when will some recognize his 3 cups?  How are GM’s like Stevie Y and Poile (and Nill doing)?  Still read, not here, how great of a job they are doing.  Just saying.

 

He didn't build the team that won the cups. He was not the GM when most of the core players were drafted or acquired. And if it weren't for those core players, drafted by Smith and Tallon, there's likely no cups at all. So please don't give Bowman all the credit. Yes, he brought in some players to go around the core, but it was that core that led to the cup wins. So give the credit to Smith and Tallon as much, if not more, then Bowman. He just happened to be named GM at an opportune time.

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iknowpuck said on 13 hours ago:

I know I’m the SB apologist around here.  No GM hits on every move.  But...when will some recognize his 3 cups?  How are GM’s like Stevie Y and Poile (and Nill doing)?  Still read, not here, how great of a job they are doing.  Just saying.

 

I think part of the reason is because many feel Stan didn't build the core of this team. He got spoiled with Tallon's picks, who did the heavy lifting. Whether that's a fair assessment or not, I'll leave up to debate -- but I think that's where it all stems from.

I'm not a Bowman fan, but I will say this: he really hit on Oduya, Madden, Handzus, and Richards. Some might say Vermette, but I wouldn't. As far as young guys go, he really hit on Saad, Shaw -- but other than that, he's really had no picks that were able to hit right away (in his defense, and if memory serves, he usually didn't have great pick numbers to start from). Debrincat's hit also. For a first round pick, Schmaltz has been inconsistent -- he was better this year, but he's still tentative. Hayden might be one of his few "diamond in the roughs" if he can hit (being a 3rd round pick). Long story short, this draft year, it's imperative that Bowman hits with at least one player who can make an immediate impact next season (assuming he doesn't tear it all down and performs a complete rebuild this off-season). TT, Schmaltz, Hartman were the best he could do up to this point in the first round: TT ended up getting traded and could never develop quick enough here, Schmaltz is still developing in my view, and Hartman is a solid 3rd line player at best.

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Granada said on 27 minutes ago:

I think part of the reason is because many feel Stan didn't build the core of this team. He got spoiled with Tallon's picks, who did the heavy lifting. Whether that's a fair assessment or not, I'll leave up to debate -- but I think that's where it all stems from.

I'm not a Bowman fan, but I will say this: he really hit on Oduya, Madden, Handzus, and Richards. Some might say Vermette, but I wouldn't. As far as young guys go, he really hit on Saad, Shaw -- but other than that, he's really had no picks that were able to hit right away (in his defense, and if memory serves, he usually didn't have great pick numbers to start from). Debrincat's hit also. For a first round pick, Schmaltz has been inconsistent -- he was better this year, but he's still tentative. Hayden might be one of his few "diamond in the roughs" if he can hit (being a 3rd round pick). Long story short, this draft year, it's imperative that Bowman hits with at least one player who can make an immediate impact next season (assuming he doesn't tear it all down and performs a complete rebuild this off-season). TT, Schmaltz, Hartman were the best he could do up to this point in the first round: TT ended up getting traded and could never develop quick enough here, Schmaltz is still developing in my view, and Hartman is a solid 3rd line player at best.

My point wasn’t to start the Smith/Tallon vs SB debate again.  It was about comparing the Cups on SB’s watch (and he hasn’t been asleep at the wheel as you posted) to other GM’s that continue to get as much praise as they do...yet they haven’t won one.

At what point do you need to win a Cup in order to justify the praise?

Edited by iknowpuck

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iknowpuck said on 19 minutes ago:

My point wasn’t to start the Smith/Tallon vs SB debate again.  It was about comparing the Cups on SB’s watch (and he hasn’t been asleep at the wheel as you posted) to other GM’s that continue to get as much praise as they do...yet they haven’t won one.

At what point do you need to win a Cup in order to justify the praise?

When have I ever said that? I've criticized Bowman -- don't get me wrong -- but I never recall saying that. I've simply said, he hasn't been very good -- there's a difference. It's not like I believe the guy isn't trying or is just coasting along; he's just making the wrong moves.

I still think I answered your original question with my last post: Bowman doesn't get credit because many believe Tallon did the heavy lifting. Bowman had to round out the roster with good secondary players (like the ones I mentioned before; mostly trade deadline acquisitions) and keep his stars, but the team and particularly the core was created by Tallon. 

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Granada said on 10 minutes ago:

When have I ever said that? I've criticized Bowman -- don't get me wrong -- but I never recall saying that. I've simply said, he hasn't been very good -- there's a difference. It's not like I believe the guy isn't trying or is just coasting along; he's just making the wrong moves.

I still think I answered your original question with my last post: Bowman doesn't get credit because many believe Tallon did the heavy lifting. Bowman had to round out the roster with good secondary players (like the ones I mentioned before; mostly trade deadline acquisitions) and keep his stars, but the team and particularly the core was created by Tallon. 

You didn’t say that...I posted that he hasn’t been asleep at the wheel...I was referring to your examples in being proof of that.  Sorry about that...I made that confusing.

Take SB out of it...Stevie Y, for example, 8 years and no Cups.  How long without one can he go to still get the praise he gets?  I keep reading how great of a job he has been doing.  Don’t get it.

 

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iknowpuck said on 6 minutes ago:

You didn’t say that...I posted that he hasn’t been asleep at the wheel...I was referring to your examples in being proof of that.  Sorry about that...I made that confusing.

Take SB out of it...Stevie Y, for example, 8 years and no Cups.  How long without one can he go to still get the praise he gets?  I keep reading how great of a job he has been doing.  Don’t get it.

 

No worries. In all honesty, I haven't been following other GM's around the league as closely as I once did; these days and the older I get, it's hard enough to follow one team -- so I can't really comment specifically on Yzerman. I guess if he continues to be able to sign his stars to really affordable contracts (i.e. Stamkos), he continues to make moves that others deem "steals" (or moves that he gives up little for a big return), he'll still get high marks, as long his team continues to make deep playoff runs. It's all about the team he inherited. When you look at the team he inherited, compared to the team Bowman inherited -- that's where all the praise comes from for Yzerman; that he built it himself and changed the culture.

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Granada said on 10 minutes ago:

No worries. In all honesty, I haven't been following other GM's around the league as closely as I once did; these days and the older I get, it's hard enough to follow one team -- so I can't really comment specifically on Yzerman. I guess if he continues to be able to sign his stars to really affordable contracts (i.e. Stamkos), he continues to make moves that others deem "steals" (or moves that he gives up little for a big return), he'll still get high marks, as long his team continues to make deep playoff runs. It's all about the team he inherited. When you look at the team he inherited, compared to the team Bowman inherited -- that's where all the praise comes from for Yzerman; that he built it himself and changed the culture.

Yeah, I don’t really follow TB/SY either...was just using him as an example.  I do agree that he has done some good things...but at the end of the day I think it’s about the number of Cups won.  I started this topic...made a mess of it too? after reading about how a few other GM’s have really been doing a nice job yet they haven’t won anything.  That’s where I brought up SB...although Smith/Tallon helped get this going...it can’t be argued that SB hasn’t had an involvement in helping to win them.  3 of them with no credit is mind boggling to me.

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Lots of rumors.  Maybe just that.

Big question is does he keep the roster close to as is and just tweak with secondary players to help sorround the core?

Or, does he add a couple of big pieces believing the window with this core is still open?

Or, does he blow it up and move some of the core and go with a complete rebuild?

Moves leading into the draft may show his hand/plan.

 

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Phill9 said on On 5/25/2018 at 8:43 AM:

He didn't build the team that won the cups. He was not the GM when most of the core players were drafted or acquired. And if it weren't for those core players, drafted by Smith and Tallon, there's likely no cups at all. So please don't give Bowman all the credit. Yes, he brought in some players to go around the core, but it was that core that led to the cup wins. So give the credit to Smith and Tallon as much, if not more, then Bowman. He just happened to be named GM at an opportune time.

Just as Q happened to be named coach at an opportune time? 

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Creature1958 said on 1 hour ago:

Just as Q happened to be named coach at an opportune time? 

Absolutely, if Q coached the Coyotes for the same amount of time, would Q have even 100 wins and 2 playoff appearances? I don’t think so. However, he did get the most out of his team, which was pre-assembled when he got here, and he’s been the coach to get us the Cups, he’s the hands on guy, and he’s the one that tells the GM what needs to be upgraded and what needs to fixed in the room. And let’s bed honest, you or I would not have turned down the chance to be the GM of the Hawks, even if we did exactly what Stan did, we’d be very wealthy and have a dream job, I don’t blame him for taking the job and running with it, I just don’t think his moves along the way have been the best they needed to be, he clearly lacks real grass roots hockey knowledge. But that doesn’t matter because he has his dream job and I have a job!!!

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Big-T said on 3 hours ago:

Absolutely, if Q coached the Coyotes for the same amount of time, would Q have even 100 wins and 2 playoff appearances? I don’t think so. However, he did get the most out of his team, which was pre-assembled when he got here, and he’s been the coach to get us the Cups, he’s the hands on guy, and he’s the one that tells the GM what needs to be upgraded and what needs to fixed in the room. And let’s bed honest, you or I would not have turned down the chance to be the GM of the Hawks, even if we did exactly what Stan did, we’d be very wealthy and have a dream job, I don’t blame him for taking the job and running with it, I just don’t think his moves along the way have been the best they needed to be, he clearly lacks real grass roots hockey knowledge. But that doesn’t matter because he has his dream job and I have a job!!!

Right but the thing is is that Stan kinda paid some dues working his way up with the organization for years where as Q was hired as a scout in Sept. of 08 and by Oct. 08 was the head coach. I have no idea if Savard could have done it like Q but he was directing the club in the right direction just like Smith,Tallon and Stan. Who knows if one stayed in their position too long or if one wasn't in the picture would we be talking about 3 Cup titles? I say it was Karma the right things at the right time with all the right pieces. 

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Two good signings today.  You wouldn't really know it tho...not many of the haters have come out to acknowledge them:P

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iknowpuck said on 5 minutes ago:

Two good signings today.  You wouldn't really know it tho...not many of the haters have come out to acknowledge them:P

the signings have been discussed in other threads.... ;)

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vadarx said on 11 minutes ago:

the signings have been discussed in other threads.... ;)

I know...first, I was just playing...second tho, not too much recognition for the actual cap hits...I think they are great signings.

Things are about to get real interesting!

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iknowpuck said on 25 minutes ago:

I know...first, I was just playing...second tho, not too much recognition for the actual cap hits...I think they are great signings.

Things are about to get real interesting!

I gotcha. B)

I dunno about others, but I liked Hayden's deal more than Hinny's. 

Edited by vadarx
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iknowpuck said on 1 hour ago:

Two good signings today.  You wouldn't really know it tho...not many of the haters have come out to acknowledge them:P

"Good" is a relative word.

Hayden is paid appropriately as a borderline fourth liner.     Hinostroza is overpaid  (though not outrageously).  Considering the player was not even an NHL player for the first part of last year, a contract of $1 - 1.25 M should have been ample.   

The bigger question remains   --- Can this team function with Hinostroza, Kane, Schmaltz, Debrincat and Sikura all in the top nine?   I do not believe it can and be successful against many of the teams in the west.   

Will one or more get traded for a player with some physicality?   Let's hope so, but I doubt it.   Until Bowman adjusts his thinking about how to construct a balanced roster, I will remain among the skeptics (though never a "hater" - life is too short to hate).

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mvr said on 43 minutes ago:

"Good" is a relative word.

Hayden is paid appropriately as a borderline fourth liner.     Hinostroza is overpaid  (though not outrageously).  Considering the player was not even an NHL player for the first part of last year, a contract of $1 - 1.25 M should have been ample.   

The bigger question remains   --- Can this team function with Hinostroza, Kane, Schmaltz, Debrincat and Sikura all in the top nine?   I do not believe it can and be successful against many of the teams in the west.   

Will one or more get traded for a player with some physicality?   Let's hope so, but I doubt it.   Until Bowman adjusts his thinking about how to construct a balanced roster, I will remain among the skeptics (though never a "hater" - life is too short to hate).

Hayden's physicality is worth that cap hit, IMO, if he can prove to score it will be an added bonus.

What physical player do you like?  You’ve been critical of the Bollig types, Mashinter types, Tootoo types, Martinsen types...etc...and now Hayden (borderline 4th liner?).  There aren’t too many Buff types out there to be had.

I know it’s only a sample size, but do the math on Hino’s points if he played the full season.  Not a bad cap hit at all.

The new NHL, IMO, is about speed and good systems...size matters...but it’s not the end all to win a Cup.

 

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vadarx said on 1 hour ago:

I gotcha. B)

I dunno about others, but I liked Hayden's deal more than Hinny's. 

Me too...but that’s because I think that’s a steal of a cap hit for Hayden.

Love it.

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