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Stan As Gm

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galaxytrash said on On 11/9/2017 at 7:57 PM:

i don't think scotty ever ran the show.

the shenanigans are the teams own doing.

just my opinion.

This was Stans first GM job...there is no way, imho, a legend like Scotty was going to let his son fall on his face. I am more than willing to bet that his role in running the team is bigger than we know. Living in FLA does not preclude one from weighing in on big moves, and giving critical input on strategic actions. Not saying he runs/ran the show, just saying that he had more influence than we know...and again, just my opinion, I have been wrong before. Take my first marriage for instance...

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JohnE said on 2 hours ago:

This was Stans first GM job...there is no way, imho, a legend like Scotty was going to let his son fall on his face. I am more than willing to bet that his role in running the team is bigger than we know. Living in FLA does not preclude one from weighing in on big moves, and giving critical input on strategic actions. Not saying he runs/ran the show, just saying that he had more influence than we know...and again, just my opinion, I have been wrong before. Take my first marriage for instance...

Scotty said that the team consults him when needed. It wouldn’t be fair to Stan or the other participants in the Hawks org if an outsider dictates what they do. If you know how it actually works, you’d be surprised. Scouts watch players all the time. Teams have “targets” all the over time. The GM should talk to his coach and get a good idea of what they need, the GM then makes calls to find possible targets, the scouts go out and watch said targets. The Assistant GM will do more calls while the GM handles possible trade talk, they have meetings with scouts all the time, and then the GM will make the final decision on the trade. I highly doubt that Scotty is involved in any of that from Florida. Ask any GM they’ll tell you that it’s tough to make a trade in the nhl. Not to mention, most teams have to consult the ownership about money issues and other things. Stan’s got an awesome gig. I just don’t think he’s very good at it!!!

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Big-T said on 2 hours ago:

Scotty said that the team consults him when needed. It wouldn’t be fair to Stan or the other participants in the Hawks org if an outsider dictates what they do. If you know how it actually works, you’d be surprised. Scouts watch players all the time. Teams have “targets” all the over time. The GM should talk to his coach and get a good idea of what they need, the GM then makes calls to find possible targets, the scouts go out and watch said targets. The Assistant GM will do more calls while the GM handles possible trade talk, they have meetings with scouts all the time, and then the GM will make the final decision on the trade. I highly doubt that Scotty is involved in any of that from Florida. Ask any GM they’ll tell you that it’s tough to make a trade in the nhl. Not to mention, most teams have to consult the ownership about money issues and other things. Stan’s got an awesome gig. I just don’t think he’s very good at it!!!

I believe you nailed how the system works. But there's a lot of steps before the G.M. Makes his call. What if he is acting on poor information or opinion? Maybe the scouting staff gets too comfortable as well, maybe some new eyes there might help as well. Not letting Bowman off the hook here but maybe there are others in the organization  too that need to have some performance reviews.

Edited by tincup61

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tincup61 said on 2 hours ago:

I believe you nailed how the system works. But there's a lot of steps before the G.M. Makes his call. What if he is acting on poor information or opinion? Maybe the scouting staff gets too comfortable as well, maybe some new eyes there might help as well. Not letting Bowman off the hook here but maybe there are others in the organization  too that need to have some performance reviews.

Then, that’s when a good Hockey guy comes in. Gotta know players and what you need. If you’re a numbers guy and rely heavily on others info, it won’t work for you. John Chayka has done a horrible job at best for Arizona, and that’s exactly what he is, how he was ever let to run an NHL team is beyond me!!!

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galaxytrash said on 13 minutes ago:

pretty good article from john jaeckel i thought.

https://www.the-rink.com/2017/11/29/rebuild-actually-begun/

 

I can buy that. 2016 was the last "go for it all" year (Ladd, Flash, Weise at the deadline). Last year was a throw-away year: Bowman wanted to conserve picks for the Chicago draft and no "big" moves were made at the deadline (one could argue it was because Bowman liked the team "as is," but in hindsight, I'd bet Bowman wasn't going to make any big moves at the deadline regardless of the Hawks' hot streak). This year is something in-between at best, at least so far. I think it may be another throw-away until the Hawks can move Hossa's contract next off-season (if possible); then they will have legitimate cap space to fill their three substantial holes.

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I don't think a rebuild can or will happen until circa 2023.  The sad fact is none of the core players outside of Crawford are really earning their salary overall.  If this continues there simply won't be enough money to pay the up-and-comers who would be doing the heavy lifting over the core, or if there is the depth would be like 2011/2012 bad.

 

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LordKOTL said on On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 1:18 PM:

I don't think a rebuild can or will happen until circa 2023.  The sad fact is none of the core players outside of Crawford are really earning their salary overall.  If this continues there simply won't be enough money to pay the up-and-comers who would be doing the heavy lifting over the core, or if there is the depth would be like 2011/2012 bad.

 

Lord, I have to hope you're wrong about the rebuild time frame. Imho, I don't think anyone wants to watch the crap we've been watching most of this season until 2023. Save for a few games, it has been very painful to watch this team stumble thru game after game looking like a beer-league team trying to play nhl teams. The multi-millionaire prima donnas (looking at you Toews, Keith, Saad  et all) have their big $$$, long-term contracts and their rings so they don't have anything more to prove. They are showing us Hawk fans that they no longer care about winning cups or about us, only about collecting their humongus paychecks. Their contracts contain clauses that protect them from any kind of retribution for poor play, like sending them to Rockford. Again, in my opinion the 1st thing they need to do is fire Bowman. It appears he has developed early dementia and has lost his ability to make good decisions regarding trades. Where years ago he could trade a bag of marbles for a valuable player, he now does just the exact opposite. Next it appears the players no longer listen to Q (he has "lost the room"). Therefor, it's time for him to move on. If not Q, then you need to move some of the core players. The current core is apparently not providing the leadership necessary to help the younger players develop their skills and to motivate them to perform to the best of their ability. Perhaps it's time to move Toews or Kane (go ahead haters and hate) to free up some cap space and aquire some skilled, lower priced players. Some young, faster skaters with some size and grit is what's missing. Aquire a better backup goaltender for Crawford. Forsberg doesn't appear to be the answer as proven by his numbers.

As of now, the Hawks are on the outside looking in at the playoffs. If some or all of the above are not done on or before the trade deadline, we will be watching the last Hawks game of the 2017-18 season in early April. Will any of this happen? Only time will tell. However, if this season continues as it has so far, I can't imagine Rocky Wirtz watching his bottom line drop significantly as people stay away from the games in droves. The future depends on change. And that change needs to happen sooner rather than later.

There is a lot of hockey left in this season. I know this. But we, as fans must remember the definition of insanity is doing things the same way and expecting a different result. Rocky Wirtz and John McDonaugh (sp?) are not insane. If the Hawks don't right this ship, things will change. Don't be surprised when it happens. End of rant. 

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antiqueff said on 10 hours ago:

Lord, I have to hope you're wrong about the rebuild time frame....(snipped to save space)

The thing is, I know they're playing badly, but I don't think they're that far off honestly. I've been saying all along, there are 3 holes on this team: top-six forward (Panik isn't top-six; never felt like he was, and that contract looks like another Bowman-jumping-the-gun-on-one-of-"his"-finds zitty moves; and I question if Schmaltz is -- either way, both can't be in your top-six if you want to be a true contender), 3LC, and top 4 D. Now, if you assume Ruuta, Forsling, and Murphy (who has been playing better) can keep up their play while improving, you really have two major holes to fill. The 4th line is solid and much improved from last year, as is the PK. I think you have to try at least one more time with this current core before you blow it up -- firstly, because it will be difficult to trade a Toews or a Seabrook; and secondly, because I feel like they have one more Cup in them. These aren't ancient players; the team simply lacks real depth, so the core is trying to compensate for that unsuccessfully and is being worn thin.

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Granada said on 37 minutes ago:

The thing is, I know they're playing badly, but I don't think they're that far off honestly. I've been saying all along, there are 3 holes on this team: top-six forward (Panik isn't top-six; never felt like he was, and that contract looks like another Bowman-jumping-the-gun-on-one-of-"his"-finds zitty moves; and I question if Schmaltz is -- either way, both can't be in your top-six if you want to be a true contender), 3LC, and top 4 D. Now, if you assume Ruuta, Forsling, and Murphy (who has been playing better) can keep up their play while improving, you really have two major holes to fill. The 4th line is solid and much improved from last year, as is the PK. I think you have to try at least one more time with this current core before you blow it up -- firstly, because it will be difficult to trade a Toews or a Seabrook; and secondly, because I feel like they have one more Cup in them. These aren't ancient players; the team simply lacks real depth, so the core is trying to compensate for that unsuccessfully and is being worn thin.

They are rolling 4 lines and the 4th line gets plenty of minutes so how are they being worn thin? I see that 4th line playing with heart and soul every shift they are out there. Not so much from the other 3 lines.

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antiqueff said on 11 hours ago:

Lord, I have to hope you're wrong about the rebuild time frame. Imho, I don't think anyone wants to watch the crap we've been watching most of this season until 2023. Save for a few games, it has been very painful to watch this team stumble thru game after game looking like a beer-league team trying to play nhl teams. The multi-millionaire prima donnas (looking at you Toews, Keith, Saad  et all) have their big $$$, long-term contracts and their rings so they don't have anything more to prove. They are showing us Hawk fans that they no longer care about winning cups or about us, only about collecting their humongus paychecks. Their contracts contain clauses that protect them from any kind of retribution for poor play, like sending them to Rockford. Again, in my opinion the 1st thing they need to do is fire Bowman. It appears he has developed early dementia and has lost his ability to make good decisions regarding trades. Where years ago he could trade a bag of marbles for a valuable player, he now does just the exact opposite. Next it appears the players no longer listen to Q (he has "lost the room"). Therefor, it's time for him to move on. If not Q, then you need to move some of the core players. The current core is apparently not providing the leadership necessary to help the younger players develop their skills and to motivate them to perform to the best of their ability. Perhaps it's time to move Toews or Kane (go ahead haters and hate) to free up some cap space and aquire some skilled, lower priced players. Some young, faster skaters with some size and grit is what's missing. Aquire a better backup goaltender for Crawford. Forsberg doesn't appear to be the answer as proven by his numbers.

As of now, the Hawks are on the outside looking in at the playoffs. If some or all of the above are not done on or before the trade deadline, we will be watching the last Hawks game of the 2017-18 season in early April. Will any of this happen? Only time will tell. However, if this season continues as it has so far, I can't imagine Rocky Wirtz watching his bottom line drop significantly as people stay away from the games in droves. The future depends on change. And that change needs to happen sooner rather than later.

There is a lot of hockey left in this season. I know this. But we, as fans must remember the definition of insanity is doing things the same way and expecting a different result. Rocky Wirtz and John McDonaugh (sp?) are not insane. If the Hawks don't right this ship, things will change. Don't be surprised when it happens. End of rant. 

Forsling,Rutta,Schmaltz,D-cat,Hinostroza,Hartman,Bouma,Wingles all but Vinny who is in the Rock have shown us the most heart and soul when they are on the ice. They are all courtesy of Stan and how he doesn't make good trades anymore. And those younger faster players who have size and grit will be looking for their pay soon enough. So I will agree that a core player or two must be moved to have money to pay them. The youth is showing us the promise that the core once had but seems is not there anymore.

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Puckjim said on On 11/18/2017 at 9:20 AM:

I don’t believe fans are qualified to judge intangibles like leadership. 

They can judge talent, and the Blackhawks are lacking it. 

Well if they judge talent like you there would not be enough players in the league to even fill out the Original Six rosters.

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LordKOTL said on On 11/29/2017 at 10:18 AM:

I don't think a rebuild can or will happen until circa 2023.  The sad fact is none of the core players outside of Crawford are really earning their salary overall.  If this continues there simply won't be enough money to pay the up-and-comers who would be doing the heavy lifting over the core, or if there is the depth would be like 2011/2012 bad.

 

As you say, it is true that they are in a bind.  Let's say Schmaltz, all of a sudden becomes a 35 goal scorer.  Where will they get the money to pay him without unloading core guys who can't be unloaded because they are too expensive and on the downside of their careers?  So, adios Schmaltz or any other youngster  who steps up.  They can't afford to sign a really good free agent. 

Three years of a salary cap increase of $2-3 million per year, gives them $6-9 million to spend on up and comers, but not for three years and that is only if the cap rises that much.  They have some serious money problems given that they are getting what they expected from the core at this point.  They were supposed to still be top producers now and that is not happening.  Therefore, if that stays the same, there may be no way out.  They would end up just recycling young players because they can't afford to sign the best of their current crop and would have to let them go only to have to play some rookies for 3 years at low salaries. 

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antiqueff said on 11 hours ago:

Lord, I have to hope you're wrong about the rebuild time frame. Imho, I don't think anyone wants to watch the crap we've been watching most of this season until 2023. Save for a few games, it has been very painful to watch this team stumble thru game after game looking like a beer-league team trying to play nhl teams. The multi-millionaire prima donnas (looking at you Toews, Keith, Saad  et all) have their big $$$, long-term contracts and their rings so they don't have anything more to prove. They are showing us Hawk fans that they no longer care about winning cups or about us, only about collecting their humongus paychecks. Their contracts contain clauses that protect them from any kind of retribution for poor play, like sending them to Rockford. Again, in my opinion the 1st thing they need to do is fire Bowman. It appears he has developed early dementia and has lost his ability to make good decisions regarding trades. Where years ago he could trade a bag of marbles for a valuable player, he now does just the exact opposite. Next it appears the players no longer listen to Q (he has "lost the room"). Therefor, it's time for him to move on. If not Q, then you need to move some of the core players. The current core is apparently not providing the leadership necessary to help the younger players develop their skills and to motivate them to perform to the best of their ability. Perhaps it's time to move Toews or Kane (go ahead haters and hate) to free up some cap space and aquire some skilled, lower priced players. Some young, faster skaters with some size and grit is what's missing. Aquire a better backup goaltender for Crawford. Forsberg doesn't appear to be the answer as proven by his numbers.

As of now, the Hawks are on the outside looking in at the playoffs. If some or all of the above are not done on or before the trade deadline, we will be watching the last Hawks game of the 2017-18 season in early April. Will any of this happen? Only time will tell. However, if this season continues as it has so far, I can't imagine Rocky Wirtz watching his bottom line drop significantly as people stay away from the games in droves. The future depends on change. And that change needs to happen sooner rather than later.

There is a lot of hockey left in this season. I know this. But we, as fans must remember the definition of insanity is doing things the same way and expecting a different result. Rocky Wirtz and John McDonaugh (sp?) are not insane. If the Hawks don't right this ship, things will change. Don't be surprised when it happens. End of rant. 

The rebuild is going to hinge on getting over 31M in cap off the books:  Toews, Kane, Keith, and Seabrook.  Even assuming Toews and/or Kane resign in 2023, it's not going to be 10.5M.  Keith and Seabs are likley done.

Considering that is well over a third of the cap space...IMHO the next gen of stars cannot be signed before they're off the books, because outside of a compliance buyout for Seabrook, those 4 aren't going anywhere.  If they play well enough there's no reason to get rid of them, and if they don't no one will take them especially with their ironclad NMC's.

The best hope between now and when the skater core comes off the books is depth overextending itself looking for a mammoth payday.  So guys like Forsling, Rutta, El Gato, etc. playing like they want to be top dog before they're making top dog deals is going to help. 

Right now the only way I think the skater core has enough in them to win another cup is if they get younger players to do the heavy lifting.  Gone are the days that they could carry the rest of the team--right now they're being carried by the guy in net.

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Creature1958 said on 53 minutes ago:

They are rolling 4 lines and the 4th line gets plenty of minutes so how are they being worn thin? I see that 4th line playing with heart and soul every shift they are out there. Not so much from the other 3 lines.

By trying to do too much. The lack of offense, the mental mistakes, losing board battles, shanking shots. It's no coincidence that Seabrook is playing better since his minutes have been cut.

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Granada said on 1 hour ago:

By trying to do too much. The lack of offense, the mental mistakes, losing board battles, shanking shots. It's no coincidence that Seabrook is playing better since his minutes have been cut.

That goes hand in hand. The biggest mental mistakes are hesitation or lack there of. Look at the passing. They are off on every line. I don't know if they are trying to put it in an area for someone to get or if they just missed. Sometimes it seems they get rid of it too soon or hang on to it too long but either way it gets turned over or ends the play. Seabrook? He has lost his quickness in every area and I think he would be best served just being a physical D-man to separate a player from the puck instead of trying to poke check it. When he misses that poke check it is trouble more often than not and I cringe every time  At least if he takes the player off the puck with a check it might give them a better chance of getting it back.

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Creature1958 said on 5 hours ago:

Well if they judge talent like you there would not be enough players in the league to even fill out the Original Six rosters.

But, we would have enough tomato soup for all of our posters to enjoy.:P

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Creature1958 said on 22 hours ago:

Well if they judge talent like you there would not be enough players in the league to even fill out the Original Six rosters.

Perhaps.  But at least there wouldn't garbage like Bollig or Tootoo on the roster.

 

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Interesting opinion i heard from a young guy (young but as sure of his hockey opinions as the rest of us) ......Me ... who do you blame who do u like ? Players Coach or scheme?...... Answer  As many rings victories and super teams the Bowman's and Q have under there belt ...i aint listening to no sucky players whine.....

Disclaimer ....a Coach....

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iknowpuck said on On 12/4/2017 at 4:01 PM:

But, we would have enough tomato soup for all of our posters to enjoy.:P

A Vegan I am not although I am a PETA member !

People

Eating

Tasty

Animals

So unless there is some type of dead animal that has kissed a flame I'll pass on the tomater soup.

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Well, if the salary cap heads to where Gary claims, roughly 80 million, we will be in much better shape. We would have close to 14 million this summer and some good pieces to trade, assuming Stan does nothing again this year. There’s some good UFAs that could help the Hawks, most notable is John Tavares. He would get 10 million, but be worth it. If Stan could find a home for Murphy we could have a top 6  never seen before, and set this thing up for another few good years of runs. Pitt was missing that “star power” and fixed it with Kessel. We need the same type thing, a guy in his mid to late 20s who’s hungry, and Tavares fits that bill. The money will be there!!!

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Big-T said on 3 minutes ago:

Well, if the salary cap heads to where Gary claims, roughly 80 million, we will be in much better shape. We would have close to 14 million this summer and some good pieces to trade, assuming Stan does nothing again this year. There’s some good UFAs that could help the Hawks, most notable is John Tavares. He would get 10 million, but be worth it. If Stan could find a home for Murphy we could have a top 6  never seen before, and set this thing up for another few good years of runs. Pitt was missing that “star power” and fixed it with Kessel. We need the same type thing, a guy in his mid to late 20s who’s hungry, and Tavares fits that bill. The money will be there!!!

Who else rounds out that top 6 to make it that good?

It’s going to take a lot more than one very big expensive piece.

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iknowpuck said on 47 minutes ago:

Who else rounds out that top 6 to make it that good?

It’s going to take a lot more than one very big expensive piece.

Dcat will be ready for it. So once again we could have 4 of the top 6 be amazing like when we had Kane, Toews, Sharp and Hossa. Now we could have Tavares, Toews, Kane, Saad and to some extent Dcat. That’s 5 of the top 6 that are amazing. And with the left over money, get a decent dman. And hopefully someone like Hino turns it on, and could be with Tavares and Kane!!!

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I don't buy it that the core is being worn thin. The wheels fell off this wagon starting at game #3 this year. Two games is not enough to be worn thin. But it's enough to start losing interest, start passing the buck and start tuning out the coach.

I'm not convinced that going out and getting another highly paid piece like Tavares is going to magically motivate Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, etc. rediscover their resolve and play like they are capable.

The stars need to be the best players on the ice, and outside of Crawford they simply haven't been. Q has been giving the players rope and the players have been tying the noose around his neck.

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