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Stan As Gm

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Yes, I believe that because Stan said it after Dale was let go. It doesn't require intimate knowledge to read a quote from someone. McD said he was responsible and then later Stan said he was...that's after Dale said he was responsible so at least three people claimed responsibilty for the gaffe, but Dale was the one sent packing.

OK, I never saw those quotes and I am not saying they don't exist. My understanding was that Tallon told someone to put them in the mail instead of FEDEX.

I don't believe it was the sole reason he was let go, other factors would have been Huet and maybe even Campbells contract.

The firing of Savard gave me the impression that Tallon was not in charge and that decision was made by someone above him and I wonder if the same people aren't influencing Bowman.

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Let's not forget that Stan signed Emery after Salak had the better training camp. Stan had faith that Emery's experience would be a factor and he was right. Picking Emery over Salak was a risky and bold move, but it was the right choice. Some people think Carciillo was Stan's best summer signing, while it was good I think that Emery was the best summer free agent.

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Let's not forget that Stan signed Emery after Salak had the better training camp. Stan had faith that Emery's experience would be a factor and he was right. Picking Emery over Salak was a risky and bold move, but it was the right choice. Some people think Carciillo was Stan's best summer signing, while it was good I think that Emery was the best summer free agent.

I wouldn't go that far yet. If Emery gets 2-3 starts in a row. Then we'll talk. But playing sparingly isn't the same as what Crawford has to go through.

And maybe Crawford (and Emery) would look a lot better if they had better D in front of them. Montador and O'Donnell are albatross's to date!!!

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I wouldn't go that far yet. If Emery gets 2-3 starts in a row. Then we'll talk. But playing sparingly isn't the same as what Crawford has to go through.

And maybe Crawford (and Emery) would look a lot better if they had better D in front of them. Montador and O'Donnell are albatross's to date!!!

O'donnell, yeah he is not very good anymore, but Montador has not been bad, look who he has been paired with on a nightly basis. Where is Lepisto and how come he gets no looks at playing anymore? At least he can skate, I mean come on O'Donnell and Scott look like they are skating in quick sand. Hammer gets raped on these boards like he is some bum well at least every single night you know what he brings to the game. He is going to kill penalties block shots and play simple. He chips pucks out of danger and makes the smart simple play. He is not getting paid to score points he is getting paid to make sure the opposing team doesn't score.

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O'donnell, yeah he is not very good anymore, but Montador has not been bad, look who he has been paired with on a nightly basis. Where is Lepisto and how come he gets no looks at playing anymore? At least he can skate, I mean come on O'Donnell and Scott look like they are skating in quick sand. Hammer gets raped on these boards like he is some bum well at least every single night you know what he brings to the game. He is going to kill penalties block shots and play simple. He chips pucks out of danger and makes the smart simple play. He is not getting paid to score points he is getting paid to make sure the opposing team doesn't score.

I agree. Where the heck is Lepisto? He is such a better option than O'Donnel and Scott, but he just sits in the press box. I really don't get it. I think Hammer has been our most consistent D-man lately, but I think most people on these boards are dissappointed in his checking/hitting (or the lack thereof). I would love to see him hit somebody just once. I think I can recall him doing so back in 09-10. It's been a long time and my memory may be inaccurate.

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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Sharp ($5.900m)

Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Dustin Byfuglien ($5.200m) / Andrew Ladd ($4.400m)

Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Andrew Burnette ($2.000m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.875m)

Ben Smith ($0.812m) / Jamal Mayers ($0.550m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)

John Scott ($0.512m) / Marcus Kruger ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Nick Leddy ($1.116m) / Steve Montador ($2.750m)

Sean O'Donnell ($0.850m) / Sami Lepisto ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS

Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Ray Emery ($0.600m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,012,962; BONUSES: $325,000

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,287,038

Squishy I added Buff and Ladd with their raises they received this year using this year's Salary Cap and still had $1.287m left over. I eliminated Hammer and still kept Brunette although not needed and you can also move Buff to defense if you want and eliminate Montador, there are so many options..... Although I am going with a 22 man roster instead of 23 like this year but as we know now that 23 man roster don't mean a hill of beans if the guys in the pressbox do not bring any value.

Edit: If you drop Brunette & Smith off the above roster and put Brouwer in it will give you a 21 man roster with $1.7m in cap space.

listen, i'm as skeptical of stan as most but you can't just do this and put these numbers together like this!?! You're assuming salaries and increases over the course of 2 different years and at the time, the team still had huet and campbell and ther $13m annually. When buff, ladd and versteeg were let go, huet, and his $5.5m was nowhere near switzerland yet. he was on the roster until well after the other 3 were gone...that would have been one hell of a gamble! hold on to buff and ladd and hope that 2 weeks before the season starts they could get rid of huets cap hit

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listen, i'm as skeptical of stan as most but you can't just do this and put these numbers together like this!?! You're assuming salaries and increases over the course of 2 different years and at the time, the team still had huet and campbell and ther $13m annually. When buff, ladd and versteeg were let go, huet, and his $5.5m was nowhere near switzerland yet. he was on the roster until well after the other 3 were gone...that would have been one hell of a gamble! hold on to buff and ladd and hope that 2 weeks before the season starts they could get rid of huets cap hit

Hawkyman,

could get rid of huets cap hit -That was never a problem, if Huet was not able to move to a Switz team or any team overseas, he would have been moved to the AHL. And also during the summer you can go over the cap by 10%.

Believe me, I know the rules and these alternative rosters I have put up take in account of everything you bring up. I would never put my self out there without taking those things in consideration. No different than a investigator retrace the tracks, so to reassure you again, I am not making these rosters up without taking in mind the order it would have to happen, even though it is in hindsight. thanks for the feedback.

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I agree. Where the heck is Lepisto? He is such a better option than O'Donnel and Scott, but he just sits in the press box. I really don't get it. I think Hammer has been our most consistent D-man lately, but I think most people on these boards are dissappointed in his checking/hitting (or the lack thereof). I would love to see him hit somebody just once. I think I can recall him doing so back in 09-10. It's been a long time and my memory may be inaccurate.

I agree. lepister is a +4 while matador is a +1 and oh'donna is a -5

while seabs averages 2 hits a game, only scott averages more then 1 a game. matador and leipter have about 1 hit a game. not what I expected either.

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Rocky, McD and StanBow had their hands in the Cap mess too, I hate when most put the Cap mess on Tallon alone. It has been reported numerous times that McD pushed for big time FA signings when he came on board (2007) so other players around the league would know the Hawks were ready enter back into the spotlight and to disspell the perception the Hawks did not want to pay big bucks for their players. It is a misconception that Tallon is not here because of to the cap mess, Tallon is not here because he and McD were bumping heads.

Yes lets not forget. Stan was the self described "CAP-GURU"...He was the brains behind financial part of the signings.

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I believe we shouldve stayed with Dale because regardless of the cap. He brought us a cup and shouldve been able to try and clean up the cap mess.

Anyway, the bright side is, without the Dale firing we don't have Nick Leddy. And he really is something special.

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Hey I thought we are talking about Stan Bowman son of the best coach in history but does that make him the best GM for the Hawks. Who really calls the shots, Rocky? McDonough? Stan? I don't know. But I do know I've read alot about this and that, our goalie, defence and our forwards ability to show up every game. The lack of play from all sides of the game showing up slow starts and etc.. Then I read teams making trades already, talking changes in their line ups. I read about who's maybe up for trade and who is unhappy and wants to be traded. But I don't know if the Hawks are interested as history shows the last second of the final minuite of last hour on the last day the team might make a move to improve the play of this team. They say we have depth in the minors so give them the chance to prove themselves bring them up. You all know Bickel is in the dog house but how many others are or should be there also if you don't want to play and won't show then a new view is needed and I hear Rockford is a nice place to visit maybe players that need or are in the so called dog house need to find how the house of Rockford is. I read alot about our head coach losing his hold of his players and their respect, but maybe its not the players respect for their coach is lost maybe it is upper management they've lost faith in. The fact after they won the Cup they dismantled the team with shoot from the hip trades and letting guys just go with I don't care don't let the door hit you on the way out. Then to replace them with less then average players with out size or skill. So is it about the money? (Writz) or the lack of respect for the fans that a cup every 40 some years is enough for the City of Chicago that will keep us coming back for more and fill his seats and drink his beer and eat his dogs to fill his pockets like his daddy did to us for years. Here we have a great core of talent will we just throw them under the bus or will our management make the moves needed to repeat before are core rottens. If we were in Montreal or NY the 2010 team would still be together and we would have our second cup already and on our way to our thrid yea were winning but I dont know about you but my ulser is growing.

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Hey I thought we are talking about Stan Bowman son of the best coach in history but does that make him the best GM for the Hawks. Who really calls the shots, Rocky? McDonough? Stan? I don't know. But I do know I've read alot about this and that, our goalie, defence and our forwards ability to show up every game. The lack of play from all sides of the game showing up slow starts and etc.. Then I read teams making trades already, talking changes in their line ups. I read about who's maybe up for trade and who is unhappy and wants to be traded. But I don't know if the Hawks are interested as history shows the last second of the final minuite of last hour on the last day the team might make a move to improve the play of this team. They say we have depth in the minors so give them the chance to prove themselves bring them up. You all know Bickel is in the dog house but how many others are or should be there also if you don't want to play and won't show then a new view is needed and I hear Rockford is a nice place to visit maybe players that need or are in the so called dog house need to find how the house of Rockford is. I read alot about our head coach losing his hold of his players and their respect, but maybe its not the players respect for their coach is lost maybe it is upper management they've lost faith in. The fact after they won the Cup they dismantled the team with shoot from the hip trades and letting guys just go with I don't care don't let the door hit you on the way out. Then to replace them with less then average players with out size or skill. So is it about the money? (Writz) or the lack of respect for the fans that a cup every 40 some years is enough for the City of Chicago that will keep us coming back for more and fill his seats and drink his beer and eat his dogs to fill his pockets like his daddy did to us for years. Here we have a great core of talent will we just throw them under the bus or will our management make the moves needed to repeat before are core rottens. If we were in Montreal or NY the 2010 team would still be together and we would have our second cup already and on our way to our thrid yea were winning but I dont know about you but my ulser is growing.

My goodness where have you been? Have you never heard of a little thing called the "salary cap?" That 2010 team would be well over cap even with this season's increased cap ceiling (let alone last year's) so there's no way any team ...Montreal or New York... any team!.... could ever have kept it together within the cap rules.

If you had read any of the other threads on this board you'd have known that the Hawks have spent the most $ on the team by far ($17+M over #2) than any other team in the entire league. The only reason they managed to stay below cap is because Rocky has absorbed over $9M to pay Huet and Olsez to play elsewhere and as such don't count against the cap. You really should have done some research before you posted your misconception.

Where's that "tirade hat" image? :rolleyes:

Edited by Cap_Space
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As me and Rob have stated. Most of that team could a been kept together. Ya one could argue that there's timing issues. But the fact is. stan made all those choices. And the choice to Freewill. And to quote the legend rock band Rush, "If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

And some one else made a choice for stan. Doug flipin Wilson. One of Dales close friends(Hmmmm makes ya wonder).

With Buff being gone pretty much during the parade. That was a horrible choice.

And no one can argue the FACT that because of the Hammer offer sheet. stan had no choice but to trade Ladd. Any GM who can't see that Ladd is a 2 time Cup winner. And is the foot soldier of foot soldiers. Should not be in any position in hockey.

Ask yourself this. Right now. Would you trade Hammer for Ladd straight up. Right now, today? 99.9% would never make that trade. The .1 is stan!!!

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My goodness where have you been? Have you never heard of a little thing called the "salary cap?" That 2010 team would be well over cap even with this season's increased cap ceiling (let alone last year's) so there's no way any team ...Montreal or New York... any team!.... could ever have kept it together within the cap rules.

If you had read any of the other threads on this board you'd have known that the Hawks have spent the most $ on the team by far ($17+M over #2) than any other team in the entire league. The only reason they managed to stay below cap is because Rocky has absorbed over $9M to pay Huet and Olsez to play elsewhere and as such don't count against the cap. You really should have done some research before you posted your misconception.

Where's that "tirade hat" image? :rolleyes:

Been around along time 54 years, 20 of them has been in the old the house that roared and attended two Stanley Cups, money my butt. Rocky could have waited to see were Huet was going to dump his salary but didn't he just started letting the team fall apart I think Glen Hall said it best talk to the players first if they can't wait for the cap increase they can go, but to win cups that is the reason to play the game. And they knew the cap was in the cards for a large increase and by the way Olsez is in Rockford and his salary just became a part that increased the cap to 12 million for the Hawks to start shopping for players. So the point is the 80's had the Islanders they stayed together no money was a factor the cap was lower but great players and team mates stay together, oh my bad! this is the not the 80's and the word team is spelled with a "I" and money is a factor

for todays youth, sense the average age of players in the NHL is 19 and the older players are gone by then. My whole point is make moves when needed.

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“[Offer sheets] don’t concern me. These guys are going to remain with the Blackhawks. We have plenty of flexibility to make things work.”

-- Hawks general manager Stan Bowman, June 30, 2010

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Here's where I'm at. I was really disgusted w/ what they did to Dale. And we all know about the cap mess. I wonder how Dale would have handled that situation to get the team out of it. Would he have made the same moves as Stanbow? I have no idea, but I would have loved to have seen Dale get that chance.

Last year everyone gave Stan a break. There was a Stanley Cup in this town for the first time in 49 years. Sure you can argue about who should have been kept and you have to wonder if Dale is here does Doug Wilson take a run at Hammer? Or does Dale make a deal w/ him?

I think Stan was caught a bit off guard by some of that. But now the dust has settled. And this summer Stan has been on the clock. So far its been a mixed bag at best.

Stan's best move to date was the Leddy trade. I think it was a steal and stated as much from the start. I also liked Campoli a lot and he fit the system extremely well. What I didn't get was why Campoli was basically overlooked while Stan made a dash for Montador. Monty was I believe the only guy he signed for more than one year this summer not counting the core guys like Sharpie and now Craw.

If you're going to move Soupy, you still need a second puck mover which Leddy is, but the Hawks started him the year w/ Keith. What about a vet puck mover? The biggest problem the Hawks have had is the fire drill in their own zone trying to get the puck out.

Also w/ the new cap money this summer w/ the trades and the cup bonuses coming off the books I think a lot of us thought we were going to pick up some bigger pieces perhaps or some different ones? The big thing is the Hawks wanted to be a lot more physical as a team and on defense. I think Mayers and Carcillo have done decently, but that's not enough.

For example Versteeg was available this summer from the Flyers. He would have been a great fit here, but the Hawks went and got Brunette. What about a mil or so cheaper. Brunette has looked done at times and decent at others, but he was supposed to be a top 6 guy and has played mostly of late w/ the 4th line. That's great if you can afford a guy to be making that much playing down there. If you wanted a guy more like Brunette why not Steve Sullivan - a former Hawk and solid player now w/ the Pens. And he was very affordable.

Why trade Brouwer? I thought Brouwer was going to get more money, but a 2.3cap hit is pretty reasonable...and who replaces those hits? This is the other concern filling in those bottom lines.

And what about the second line center that we wanted in the summer for Hossa? The Hawks seem content to play musical chairs w/ that positon. Sure Shane Doan remains the dream guy for that slot, but first Kaner now Krueger. I think Krueger has played really well, but weren't there some guys out there.

Meanwhile the defense was supposed to be more physical and clear the net and what are the Hawks looking for currently, a physical defenseman probably a 3 or 4 guy. You could have brought Sopel back for less money and had another solid shot blocker pk specialist - where the Hawks have been at the bottom. And instead of getting Monty a bigger piece on defense. OD seems like a reach at this point. And what about John Scott...? Certainly a nice guy, but he doesn't belong on the roster. Lepisto hasn't seen much of the ice, but he's certainly better than those two alternatives.

I will give Stan credit on the Emery move - a darn good one. Where would this team be w/ Salak in there right now?

Fortunately the Hawks have one of the better records in the league right now. But the Wild, the Blues etc...are much better clubs this season. And both play the physical grinding game that usually taxes the heck out of the Hawks. The Hawks were supposed to be more physical now and deal w/ those types of teams, but it sure hasn't looked like it until recently.

It seems to me that more of the heavy lifting/changes should have been made in the summer than there were or different ones should have been made, but Stan still has time to make moves...and he needs to make at least a couple.

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Hammer as been soft ever since that hit on BUF's Jason Pominville. That was last season.

Total misconception. Hammer has never been a big hitter. His career high is 59. He is however a great shotblocker (one of the best in the league) and positional d-man. He's far from soft.

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Ya one could argue that there's timing issues.

EXACTLY!!! And you can't discount that just to attempt to prove your point. "Timing" is the most critical element to all that you're arguing and attempting to prove. Yet the last thing you want to account for.

Edited by Blackwater13

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EXACTLY!!! And you can't discount that just to attempt to prove your point. "Timing" is the most critical element to all that you're arguing and attempting to prove. Yet the last thing you want to account for.

Putting the timeline together again is time consuming and we did base it off a timeline this past summer (thread is closed) taking in consideration of present and future dollars, we pretty much covered all probabilities. It's just not worth doing again because the bottom line it doesn't really matter. It was done just to prove a point it could have been done differently following the real timeline. To say it could have not been done differently is naive.

I get your point because we are not displaying the timeline as we did before, sorry you missed it when we did. The thread was closed due to a lot of vitriolic posts in that thread.

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Been around along time 54 years, 20 of them has been in the old the house that roared and attended two Stanley Cups, money my butt. Rocky could have waited to see were Huet was going to dump his salary but didn't he just started letting the team fall apart I think Glen Hall said it best talk to the players first if they can't wait for the cap increase they can go, but to win cups that is the reason to play the game. And they knew the cap was in the cards for a large increase and by the way Olsez is in Rockford and his salary just became a part that increased the cap to 12 million for the Hawks to start shopping for players. So the point is the 80's had the Islanders they stayed together no money was a factor the cap was lower but great players and team mates stay together, oh my bad! this is the not the 80's and the word team is spelled with a "I" and money is a factor

for todays youth, sense the average age of players in the NHL is 19 and the older players are gone by then. My whole point is make moves when needed.

Lord I was born a ramblin' man tryin'to make a liviin' and doin' the best Ivan but when it comes to leavin I hope you understand that I was born a ramblin' man my father was a gambler down in Georgia he wound up on the wrong end of a gun and I was born in the back seat of a Greyhound bus rollin down highway 41 lord I was born a rambling man tryin' to make a living and doin' the best I can but when it comes to leavin' I hope you understand that I was born a rambling man

guitar solo

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Putting the timeline together again is time consuming and we did base it off a timeline this past summer (thread is closed) taking in consideration of present and future dollars, we pretty much covered all probabilities. It's just not worth doing again because the bottom line it doesn't really matter. It was done just to prove a point it could have been done differently following the real timeline. To say it could have not been done differently is naive.

I get your point because we are not displaying the timeline as we did before, sorry you missed it when we did. The thread was closed due to a lot of vitriolic posts in that thread.

Do you think yourself and Big-T could loan your crystal ball of hindsight and knowledge of things unknown to Stan so that he could use it to see into the future to make all the right moves so threads like this don't exist? Would be awesome.

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Do you think yourself and Big-T could loan your crystal ball of hindsight and knowledge of things unknown to Stan so that he could use it to see into the future to make all the right moves so threads like this don't exist? Would be awesome.

Trust me. Rob and I went back and forth for about a week. And then we seen the numbers and timelines. And we both said. WOW. It could a been much different.

The only thing I will say is this. And its FACT. Buff was gone during the parade. That was a choice. Not a cap casualty. No stan or you or me didn't see the RFA offer sheet coming. But why would you even take that risk? Its like getting tanked one night down at Dino's bar and grill. And deciding to drive home cuz you were "cool". You drove normal. But a cop pulls you over for s**** and giggles. And voila. You're in jail. No one could have predicted that exact timing. But you hung yourself out there. Why take that risk?

Hammers agent would let the Hawks know of any activity about offersheets or interest. Because the agent will play both sides of the coin. So its not like stan got up one morn. And his phone rang and it was Hammers agent laughing at him. He had foresight.

Now with timelines again. stan created the timeline by waiting, and doing nothing. EVEN when the Hammer thing came along. The right thing to do was stick SJ with him. And take the 1st and 3rd round picks.

Then sign Ladd. At least we could a still kept him. And there's no arguing that time line. Ladd was trade the day after stan matched the offersheet. That was a choice.

stans choices to me have been horrible at best. I really find it hard to believe that an NHL GM would have such a hard time keeping a good team together.

Imagine stan rebuilding this thing from the ground up? That would take longer than we have left on this planet!!!

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Do you think yourself and Big-T could loan your crystal ball of hindsight and knowledge of things unknown to Stan so that he could use it to see into the future to make all the right moves so threads like this don't exist? Would be awesome.

All I can do for you Blackie is give you some common sense advice...if you don't like a thread, do not participate.

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