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Stan As Gm

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Whatever way we look at this its been done. Many fans on this board truly enjoyed what Ladd, Versteeg and Big Buff brought to this team but they are gone now. Regardless who is the whipping boy for all of this, the Hawks number 1# priority was acheived, we became Stanley Cup Champs.

The real issue is, its not enough for us fans, we want more, one cup is not enough we want one ever two years now. Nothing was written in stone that Ladd and Buff would be just as lazy and provide the unmotivated type of hockey the hawks have been playing. My only argument is, Stan should be pursuing better options for this team knowing that there are weak spots on this team that seem to get more exposed each game we play.

One last thing, In Stan's eyes, he is probably saying to himself we are first in the division, near the top in the league in points and have a good position in the west, why would I change anything.

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I somewhat agree with the OPs feelings/thoughts towards Bowman. There is nothing wrong with cheap if there is enough scouting on a player. Some guys had to go...he did a terrible job of finding replacement players. He gets young and talented, yet inconsistent players, or mediocre players in the twillight of their career. I won't get further into this because it is Monday morning QBing.

I am sorry for getting off topic, but Q also deserves some blame. All of last season and into this season, the team plays at their opponent's level and there seems to be no accountability. He brought in one of his guys, Kitchen, and two big signings, Brunette and Mayers, were probably encouraged by Q.

Note- I regret being one of the people pushing for Brunette.

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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Sharp ($5.900m)

Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Dustin Byfuglien ($5.200m) / Andrew Ladd ($4.400m)

Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Andrew Burnette ($2.000m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.875m)

Ben Smith ($0.812m) / Jamal Mayers ($0.550m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)

John Scott ($0.512m) / Marcus Kruger ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Nick Leddy ($1.116m) / Steve Montador ($2.750m)

Sean O'Donnell ($0.850m) / Sami Lepisto ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS

Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Ray Emery ($0.600m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,012,962; BONUSES: $325,000

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,287,038

Squishy I added Buff and Ladd with their raises they received this year using this year's Salary Cap and still had $1.287m left over. I eliminated Hammer and still kept Brunette although not needed and you can also move Buff to defense if you want and eliminate Montador, there are so many options..... Although I am going with a 22 man roster instead of 23 like this year but as we know now that 23 man roster don't mean a hill of beans if the guys in the pressbox do not bring any value.

Edit: If you drop Brunette & Smith off the above roster and put Brouwer in it will give you a 21 man roster with $1.7m in cap space.

Its easy to do now with Campbell gone and a 64 million dollar cap. Not so much two years ago. Neither of which could've been predicted.

Keep in mind the Hawks had a 55 million dollar cap last season plus a 7 million dollar albatross contract when these choices had to be made. Not to mention pending RFA's Sharp and Seabrook. Again not so simple.

Edited by Blackwater13
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Its easy to do now with Campbell gone and a 64 million dollar cap. Not so much two years ago. Neither of which could've been predicted.

Keep in mind the Hawks had a 55 million dollar cap last season plus a 7 million dollar albatross contract when these choices had to be made. Not to mention pending RFA's Sharp and Seabrook. Again not so simple.

And Kopy is gone too, that should be taken into consideration as well. I'd still take him over Brouwer in a heartbeat. We'd also still have the same d-corps with this hypothetical.

The end point is still well taken though. We could have kept more "impact" players than we did. And it's showing right now. I agree Stan deserves some flak for the stamp his moves have placed on this team.

How on earth was I sold on some of these moves?

Edited by PopsMauler
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And Kopy is gone too, that should be taken into consideration as well. I'd still take him over Brouwer in a heartbeat. We'd also still have the same d-corps with this hypothetical.

The end point is still well taken though. We could have kept more "impact" players than we did. And it's showing right now. I agree Stan deserves some flak for the stamp his moves have placed on this team.

How on earth was I sold on some of these moves?

The thing is they could have been kept if the timing and stars aligned propertly, but at a long term cost. Comes back to an earlier point I made on how some mentioned before the 09-10 season that it had to be that season or they would be in flux for 2-3 seasons. It all came down to the cap, sins of the past, and future planning.

Something had to give and the team choose sooner rather than later to start the cap correction. Unfortunately with the Cup win all of our expectations are much higher and the demand for perfection is great, which tends to cloud all of our judgement of the larger picture. Nevertheless is it interesting to look at the short term and see what could have been.

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It has been reported numerous times that McD pushed for big time FA signings when he came on board (2007) so other players around the league would know the Hawks were ready enter back into the spotlight

Yes; McD...

The formal name for this affliction is the Alfonso Soriano syndrome.

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The thing is they could have been kept if the timing and stars aligned propertly, but at a long term cost. Comes back to an earlier point I made on how some mentioned before the 09-10 season that it had to be that season or they would be in flux for 2-3 seasons. It all came down to the cap, sins of the past, and future planning.

Something had to give and the team choose sooner rather than later to start the cap correction. Unfortunately with the Cup win all of our expectations are much higher and the demand for perfection is great, which tends to cloud all of our judgement of the larger picture. Nevertheless is it interesting to look at the short term and see what could have been.

Good points Biscuit, very true. I still think as others have pointed out that the supporting cast is a bit of an issue. Our checking lines need to continue improving, we don't have the luxury of abundant secondary scoring this year.

Where has Mayers gone? He was doing a great job making an impact at the start of the year, but has become somewhat invisible the past few weeks. I'd like to see him pick up on Carcillo's lead tonight and get in there on some scraps. Those two were really helping us out early with setting the tone from the get go.

At the very least, we do have the cap space open to make adjustments and aren't in a bad position for the future. It's not like we're in a completly lost season by any means. The saving grace for me so far this season is that our core forwards have delivered. Toews & Kane have been electric, and how many teams can say they have the luxury of 4 guys producing at or over a point per game?

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Good points Biscuit, very true. I still think as others have pointed out that the supporting cast is a bit of an issue. Our checking lines need to continue improving, we don't have the luxury of abundant secondary scoring this year.

Where has Mayers gone? He was doing a great job making an impact at the start of the year, but has become somewhat invisible the past few weeks. I'd like to see him pick up on Carcillo's lead tonight and get in there on some scraps. Those two were really helping us out early with setting the tone from the get go.

At the very least, we do have the cap space open to make adjustments and aren't in a bad position for the future. It's not like we're in a completly lost season by any means. The saving grace for me so far this season is that our core forwards have delivered. Toews & Kane have been electric, and how many teams can say they have the luxury of 4 guys producing at or over a point per game?

On a side note, Kane is tied for 1st in assists and 7th in points. Toews is 3rd in points and 5th in goals.

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What is with all of the Mike Smith love? Did we forget Vorobiev and Yakubov, two first round draft picks wasted.

Very few teams did well that year. It was a brutal draft.

Let's also remember - Smith has just been hired at that point. His staff wasn't really in place for the first draft.

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Its easy to do now with Campbell gone and a 64 million dollar cap. Not so much two years ago. Neither of which could've been predicted.

Keep in mind the Hawks had a 55 million dollar cap last season plus a 7 million dollar albatross contract when these choices had to be made. Not to mention pending RFA's Sharp and Seabrook. Again not so simple.

T and I ran numbers this past summers with the 55m cap last season plus the 7m from Campbell and was still able to keep Ladd and Buff. I may try to dig it up for you. I have moved on and they are gone and I can deal with that. The only reason I provide the numbers showing that they could have fit in is, to prove to those who say they would have not fit in are wrong.

Edit: can't open the old thread where T and I ran the numbers. It was in "Dismantling Of The Cup Dynasty" by Elbowsup

Edited by dlrob315
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Tallon made his deal with the devil. And got his Cup.

Blackhawk Nation rejoiced. Wear your Stanley Cup Champions gear proudly. I do.

That said there is a prevailing conception on this board that Stan is not getting the job done, and Dale would somehow be reloading the team for glory sooner than Stan would.

Dale had guys like Seabs, Dunc, Toews, Kaner.....,Niemi, etc. et.al. Playing championship hockey at five and dime salaries.

Meanwhile the Barkers And Versteegs were raking it in.

Do the math. Stan has to.

GREAT POST STOSH

Raking it in because of DT's snail mail gaff.

Edited by hllywd99

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GREAT POST STOSH

Raking it in because of DT's snail mail gaff.

DT's snail mail gaff? Stan was in charge of offers to restricted free agents...

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DT's snail mail gaff? Stan was in charge of offers to restricted free agents...

They'll say that Dale was the boss so it's his responsiblity to ensure Stan sent them out.

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Stan is doing just fine.Not even all of the great Sam Pollock's deals were perfect when he was in Montreal.The team has been in first place or close to it and is doing far better than many of the Blackhawk teams in the near past.I would say that speaks quite well for Stan.

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DT's snail mail gaff? Stan was in charge of offers to restricted free agents...

Really do you believe that! Then shouldn't Bowman have been let go instead of Tallon?

I am surprised how many laypersons have intimate knowledge of how an NHL team front office responsibilities are distributed. :unsure:

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Really do you believe that! Then shouldn't Bowman have been let go instead of Tallon?

I am surprised how many laypersons have intimate knowledge of how an NHL team front office responsibilities are distributed. :unsure:

Let me say I don't know what went on, but if somebodody wanted to get rid of somebody thats a perfect way to do it. So yes if Stan was in charge of RFA signings he should have been fired. But as a retired Navy CPO....it's the Captain that falls for subordinate errors, Tallon was the "Captain" and now he's gone.

Edited by jay-jay-1
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Problems aside. The team just isn't as good as most think. This has been going on for a year and almost a half. The finger needs to be pointed where the true problem's lie. The GM.

He has done nothing but jettison more and more guys. And for no apparent reason. Cap space is good. But if it needs to be spent, it needs to be spent.

The GM spends his time looking for bargains. Well, Cheap work isn't good. And good work isn't cheap.

I highly doubt you can make a team out of bargains.

I'm still not convinced that the "core" can do it on their own. I truly feel that they need a real supporting cast. And right now, they're proving me right!!!

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The thing is they could have been kept if the timing and stars aligned propertly, but at a long term cost. Comes back to an earlier point I made on how some mentioned before the 09-10 season that it had to be that season or they would be in flux for 2-3 seasons. It all came down to the cap, sins of the past, and future planning.

Something had to give and the team choose sooner rather than later to start the cap correction. Unfortunately with the Cup win all of our expectations are much higher and the demand for perfection is great, which tends to cloud all of our judgement of the larger picture. Nevertheless is it interesting to look at the short term and see what could have been.

Again. stan CHOSE to unload guys. Buff was gone by the end of the parade. How the hell can the "stars align" with that?

Ladd was lost because stan didn't understand the CBA and how RFA's work. Nothing to assume there.

If you're going to sit there and tell us all that the Hawks would of had a rough time trading Buff, Steeg, and Ladd. You must be stan.

Maybe if stan waited. Maybe he didn't get the return he wanted. Maybe he would a got more? We'll never know that. I'll give you that.

But to think that the NHL did not know that the Hawks had to purge. And no one but the teams that traded with the Hawks were available for trade, is ignorant.

AGAIN. stan made those choices. He did not have to move anyone when he did. He had a plan, that did not work. When he traded Buff. That deal was in the works when the Cup was being presented. How do I know that? Well Buff was gone shortly after the parade. And stan was a busy man with all of that. So he obviously had talks with people about jettisoning certain players.

All in all. The numbers work out to keeping more of the Cup team together. Nothing needed to align. Except for stan not making horrible horrible moves. Keeping Hammer over Ladd is just not a hockey decision. It just isn't.

Its actually laughable if your not a Hawks fan. And I think the problem with these boards is, every things Hawks all the time. And no one understands the rest of the league. Or even cares.

And how am I so sure of that? Well. Just look in the threads like "What are the Hawks options on D", and other threads like that. There's maybe 6-8 posters talking about the guys around the NHL. Out of the 100's of regulars on here!!!

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And Kopy is gone too, that should be taken into consideration as well. I'd still take him over Brouwer in a heartbeat. We'd also still have the same d-corps with this hypothetical.

The end point is still well taken though. We could have kept more "impact" players than we did. And it's showing right now. I agree Stan deserves some flak for the stamp his moves have placed on this team.

How on earth was I sold on some of these moves?

No offense Pops. I love you as a poster on here. But I think you fell into the "Hawks can do no wrong crowd". Instead of looking at the moves he made from a realistic point of view.

As a huge hockey fan. I've seen all these guys stan signed for years. And seen what they brought to the table. And I personally was not impressed at all. I posted my thoughts on here. And I was the goat of the boards until people seen for themselves. I hate to say I told you so. Cuz anyone can say that to me. But when it comes to hockey talent, its easy to see that O'Donnell isn't Keith. Or even Hammer, or even.... well you get the point.

I think too many look at stats, and say, oh this guys not bad. Without ever have seeing him play.

Here's a quick example. My buddy is a Big Oilers fan. I watch a few WHL games. Leo had posted links to watch these games on line last year. I actually took advantage of that. My buddy thought that Nugent-Hopkins was the worst choice ever for a first pick. He looked at his numbers and size. He wanted Couturier instead. Due to his numbers and size. Obviously. He was ignorant. We argued many times over the summer about the pick. Now he has a horrible time admitting that the Oilers were right in taking him.

Seeing the players is a huge deal. I just don't know why anyone would form an opinion when they really are ignorant to the players abilities. Let alone their personalities, and dressing room presence etc!!!

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No offense Pops. I love you as a poster on here. But I think you fell into the "Hawks can do no wrong crowd". Instead of looking at the moves he made from a realistic point of view.

As a huge hockey fan. I've seen all these guys stan signed for years. And seen what they brought to the table. And I personally was not impressed at all. I posted my thoughts on here. And I was the goat of the boards until people seen for themselves. I hate to say I told you so. Cuz anyone can say that to me. But when it comes to hockey talent, its easy to see that O'Donnell isn't Keith. Or even Hammer, or even.... well you get the point.

I think too many look at stats, and say, oh this guys not bad. Without ever have seeing him play.

Here's a quick example. My buddy is a Big Oilers fan. I watch a few WHL games. Leo had posted links to watch these games on line last year. I actually took advantage of that. My buddy thought that Nugent-Hopkins was the worst choice ever for a first pick. He looked at his numbers and size. He wanted Couturier instead. Due to his numbers and size. Obviously. He was ignorant. We argued many times over the summer about the pick. Now he has a horrible time admitting that the Oilers were right in taking him.

Seeing the players is a huge deal. I just don't know why anyone would form an opinion when they really are ignorant to the players abilities. Let alone their personalities, and dressing room presence etc!!!

Careful Big-T McD,Goats!!!!......You are making many Cub fans on these boards very nervous...You may be the next sacrificial lamb goat. :lol:
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Careful Big-T McD,Goats!!!!......You are making many Cub fans on these boards very nervous...You may be the next sacrificial lamb goat. :lol:

Hmmmmm. Goats are good????? Huh? I like you're society you live in. And wish to live amongst you and your kind.

Just..... I'll stay away from the Cubs. Nothing personal. But not winning in "four score and twain". Makes me stay away. Kinda like the Leaves. Its hard to root for a team that has sucked for half a century, and people are going crazy over them.

Besides that. I'm a movin in your neighborhood!!!

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