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Big-T

Stan As Gm

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That would be, BigT, if it was as simple as plugging someone else in...it's not. It's not the "cheap" guys that are doing us in, it's usually just what O'donnel said--guys not playing to an acceptable compete level...EN MASSE.

IMHO it's foolish to say any one specific person is *the* problem. You have nights like Calgary and last game, where a few guys show up, and you have night like Edmononton where no one shows up. You can point the finger at your whipping boy du jure and say, "they're the problem", but you're forgetting the other 15-19 guys that are playing as lackluster as them. Stan couldn't, wouldn't nor should't replace all of those guys who fail to bring it to every game. The problem is more systemic.

Our early record and game against Vancouver proves the guys we are icing right now (including everyone's whipping boy du jure), can get it done in convincing fashion--not just for 1 or two games, but for enough to put us in the top tier of the league.

Getting a big #3/#4 D-man that can hit and be physical, a Top-3 LW, A bottom-pairing D-man, a #2C, etc. is not going to stop the rest of the team from mailing it in on a regular basis. At best, you'll then have 14-18 guys mailing it in, and at worst, you'll still have 15-19 guys mailing it in.

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Problems aside. The team just isn't as good as most think. This has been going on for a year and almost a half. The finger needs to be pointed where the true problem's lie. The GM.

He has done nothing but jettison more and more guys. And for no apparent reason. Cap space is good. But if it needs to be spent, it needs to be spent.

The GM spends his time looking for bargains. Well, Cheap work isn't good. And good work isn't cheap.

I highly doubt you can make a team out of bargains.

I'm still not convinced that the "core" can do it on their own. I truly feel that they need a real supporting cast. And right now, they're proving me right!!!

I was a big fan of Dale Tallon as GM, and yes, I know he left the team with a horrible Cap mess, that he himself would have been stuck with had he not been let go.

I was one of those who was furious though as to how it appeared to me to go down.

So right off the bat I was ok with Scotty around, but anti Stan. But I made myself say "give him a chance". I know he inherited one heck of a salary cap mess, but he also inherited one exciting, talented, young, and quick team. I have to give him props for doing the best he could with the cap/contract issues. But now I think I'm to the end of my "honeymoon phase" and it's now time to watch him for his judgement on draft days, and free agent signings,roster moves,trades etc. I think at least for me he's now past the point where he's had to go get a player and base his decision on those cap issues from the last couple seasons. So long story short, for me at least, I'm now holding him accountable from here on out..........

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I was a big fan of Dale Tallon as GM, and yes, I know he left the team with a horrible Cap mess, that he himself would have been stuck with had he not been let go.

I was one of those who was furious though as to how it appeared to me to go down.

So right off the bat I was ok with Scotty around, but anti Stan. But I made myself say "give him a chance". I know he inherited one heck of a salary cap mess, but he also inherited one exciting, talented, young, and quick team. I have to give him props for doing the best he could with the cap/contract issues. But now I think I'm to the end of my "honeymoon phase" and it's now time to watch him for his judgement on draft days, and free agent signings,roster moves,trades etc. I think at least for me he's now past the point where he's had to go get a player and base his decision on those cap issues from the last couple seasons. So long story short, for me at least, I'm now holding him accountable from here on out..........

Rocky, McD and StanBow had their hands in the Cap mess too, I hate when most put the Cap mess on Tallon alone. It has been reported numerous times that McD pushed for big time FA signings when he came on board (2007) so other players around the league would know the Hawks were ready enter back into the spotlight and to disspell the perception the Hawks did not want to pay big bucks for their players. It is a misconception that Tallon is not here because of to the cap mess, Tallon is not here because he and McD were bumping heads.

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Rocky, McD and StanBow had their hands in the Cap mess too, I hate when most put the Cap mess on Tallon alone. It has been reported numerous times that McD pushed for big time FA signings when he came on board (2007) so other players around the league would know the Hawks were ready enter back into the spotlight and to disspell the perception the Hawks did not want to pay big bucks for their players. It is a misconception that Tallon is not here because of to the cap mess, Tallon is not here because he and McD were bumping heads.

Oh, I know about the bumping heads, and didn't mean at all that he was let go because of the cap mess. (And don't even get me started on the McD thing, lol, I could spend hours with that).

However,the cap mess was developing on "Dale's watch", no matter who may or may not have been "meddling" in the background.

But I didn't care,I for one was just happy to see a competitive team again, and was all for the "all in" win a cup and worry about the cap later. I think the "new regime" wanted Dale out for a long time before it happened. I don't like the way it looked to play out with the offer sheet fiasco bringing it to a head. But that was then, this is now, and my point was that Stan can no longer use that as any excuse for transactions from here on out.

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Tallon made his deal with the devil. And got his Cup.

Blackhawk Nation rejoiced. Wear your Stanley Cup Champions gear proudly. I do.

That said there is a prevailing conception on this board that Stan is not getting the job done, and Dale would somehow be reloading the team for glory sooner than Stan would.

Dale had guys like Seabs, Dunc, Toews, Kaner.....,Niemi, etc. et.al. Playing championship hockey at five and dime salaries.

Meanwhile the Barkers And Versteegs were raking it in.

Do the math. Stan has to.

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Tallon made his deal with the devil. And got his Cup.

Blackhawk Nation rejoiced. Wear your Stanley Cup Champions gear proudly. I do.

That said there is a prevailing conception on this board that Stan is not getting the job done, and Dale would somehow be reloading the team for glory sooner than Stan would.

Dale had guys like Seabs, Dunc, Toews, Kaner.....,Niemi, etc. et.al. Playing championship hockey at five and dime salaries.

Meanwhile the Barkers And Versteegs were raking it in.

Do the math. Stan has to.

+1

especially about how Dale (or the hawks mgmt) spent to get the cup. we were all happy they won it.

as a better supporter of Tallon than Stan, and like other Tallon supporter, we all felt like Tallon was let go to quickly. We, or at least i would have love to see how Tallon handled the salary cap mess. thats the biggest mystery in my mind

the bolded statement - these players were playing better while not getting paid?

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Tallon made his deal with the devil. And got his Cup.

Blackhawk Nation rejoiced. Wear your Stanley Cup Champions gear proudly. I do.

That said there is a prevailing conception on this board that Stan is not getting the job done, and Dale would somehow be reloading the team for glory sooner than Stan would.

Dale had guys like Seabs, Dunc, Toews, Kaner.....,Niemi, etc. et.al. Playing championship hockey at five and dime salaries.

Meanwhile the Barkers And Versteegs were raking it in.

Do the math. Stan has to.

I wouldnt call $3 mil "raking it in". Also, even though they were still on the ELC's Kane & Toews still brought home more than Steeg & Barker when the season was done after their bonus' were figured in. Also making more were Seabs, Hossa, Sharp, Huet, & Campbell - Buff was right there too. Sopel & Madden were close.

I think i get your point though. We were able to ice a more balanced roster because we had more balance in our contracts.

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Tallon made his deal with the devil. And got his Cup.

Blackhawk Nation rejoiced. Wear your Stanley Cup Champions gear proudly. I do.

That said there is a prevailing conception on this board that Stan is not getting the job done, and Dale would somehow be reloading the team for glory sooner than Stan would.

Dale had guys like Seabs, Dunc, Toews, Kaner.....,Niemi, etc. et.al. Playing championship hockey at five and dime salaries.

Meanwhile the Barkers And Versteegs were raking it in.

Do the math. Stan has to.

One fine day me and my good man Rob will pull out the numbers again. We proved that mathematically, the Hawks could a kept Buff and Ladd. By letting Niemi and Hammer go.

I see what your saying. But all I personally am and have been saying, is stan kept the wrong guys, and or had a terrible plan. And I think its safe to say. Now he has the mess cleaned up. But a much weaker team. Its pretty much the same as last year. stan is pretty much a rookie GM. The Hawks have had 4 out of the last 5 GM's be rookies. And its apparent it has hurt the team.

Many knock Mike Smith. But its clear as day. He had some very good picks. Buff, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Burish, Brouwer, Crawford etc. And that comes from experience.

I just wish that the Hawks should of, or hope that they will get a good experienced GM!!!

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One fine day me and my good man Rob will pull out the numbers again. We proved that mathematically, the Hawks could a kept Buff and Ladd. By letting Niemi and Hammer go.

Can you prove that the timing would have worked out to make that happen? That the optimal situation was guarenteed? That Huet would be playing overseas? Hindsight is very much 20/20.

The thing is we knew that regardless of the result of the 09-10 season that there was going to be a large churn of players due to the cap overage. Many also suspected that there would be a fair amount of churn after the 10-11 season as part of the cap correction. And a subset of that talked about this year being another correction year. This was all during the 09-10 season. The cap is one mean beyatch that has brought the parity it was asked to bring.

While I do not disagree with the possiblity (just look at some of the stat analysis that I like to throw out), but I disagree with the probability.

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Can you prove that the timing would have worked out to make that happen? That the optimal situation was guarenteed? That Huet would be playing overseas? Hindsight is very much 20/20.

The thing is we knew that regardless of the result of the 09-10 season that there was going to be a large churn of players due to the cap overage. Many also suspected that there would be a fair amount of churn after the 10-11 season as part of the cap correction. And a subset of that talked about this year being another correction year. This was all during the 09-10 season. The cap is one mean beyatch that has brought the parity it was asked to bring.

While I do not disagree with the possiblity (just look at some of the stat analysis that I like to throw out), but I disagree with the probability.

Well, first off. Buff was pretty much traded at the Parade. Versteeg was pretty much just dumped. And Ladd was a casualty of stan not understanding his job, and the rules to Restricted Free Agency(I think we've heard that tune before).

So stan lets Hammer and Niemi bask in the RFA sun. Just after they won a Cup. Very smart move if you ask me. I just wish we had more RFA's to sit out there and get offer sheeted.

So stan kept Hammer over Ladd and Buff. I understand letting Niemi walk. That move still today doesn't bother me considering the circumstances. BUT. Any one who understands the sport of hockey. Knows that you CANNOT WIN without your foot soldiers. And stan gets rid of all our heart and soul and replaced.

IF. stan let Niemi walk. And took the picks for Hammer. He could of kept Ladd, Buff. Ladd only had to be given a 10% raise from his 1.8. And I believe he signed in Atlanta for 2.3.

NOW. With them in the Fold. We did not need Stalberg. He could a been sent to the farm as he was on a 2 way deal. We did not need Pisani.

Then this season. Lets say stan does trade Soupy. Ok cool. Theres a backup plan. Put Buff back there. And there's MORE THAN ENOUGH Cap Space to maintain them. THEN. Trade for Versteeg back. Cuz there would the cap space this year. And Voila. You got the band back together. And only lose Soupy, Hammer, Sopel, Eager, Burish and Niemi from the Cup team.

The numbers do work. Me and Rob proved it, but I'm too hungover to look it up. One fine day we will.

But with all that said. I'm just some stupid idiot on a message board. And the GM of the BlackHawks cannot figure that out what people on here know???

Edited by Big-T
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Well, first off. Buff was pretty much traded at the Parade. Versteeg was pretty much just dumped. And Ladd was a casualty of stan not understanding his job, and the rules to Restricted Free Agency(I think we've heard that tune before).

So stan lets Hammer and Niemi bask in the RFA sun. Just after they won a Cup. Very smart move if you ask me. I just wish we had more RFA's to sit out there and get offer sheeted.

So stan kept Hammer over Ladd and Buff. I understand letting Niemi walk. That move still today doesn't bother me considering the circumstances. BUT. Any one who understands the sport of hockey. Knows that you CANNOT WIN without your foot soldiers. And stan gets rid of all our heart and soul and replaced.

IF. stan let Niemi walk. And took the picks for Hammer. He could of kept Ladd, Buff. Ladd only had to be given a 10% raise from his 1.8. And I believe he signed in Atlanta for 2.3.

NOW. With them in the Fold. We did not need Stalberg. He could a been sent to the farm as he was on a 2 way deal. We did not need Pisani.

Then this season. Lets say stan does trade Soupy. Ok cool. Theres a backup plan. Put Buff back there. And there's MORE THAN ENOUGH Cap Space to maintain them. THEN. Trade for Versteeg back. Cuz there would the cap space this year. And Voila. You got the band back together. And only lose Soupy, Hammer, Sopel, Eager, Burish and Niemi from the Cup team.

The numbers do work. Me and Rob proved it, but I'm too hungover to look it up. One fine day we will.

But with all that said. I'm just some stupid idiot on a message board. And the GM of the BlackHawks cannot figure that out what people on here know???

As it stated above, I do not disagree with the possiblity, but I disagree with the high probability that you have professed in many posts over many threads as a given.

The thing is, what you present takes in a lot of assumption of what conversations were happening between the Hawks, the players, and other teams to try any make your presented plan a possibility. It also does not take into consideration that Huet coming off the cap was a given. That is what the GM was working with.

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As it stated above, I do not disagree with the possiblity, but I disagree with the high probability that you have professed in many posts over many threads as a given.

The thing is, what you present takes in a lot of assumption of what conversations were happening between the Hawks, the players, and other teams to try any make your presented plan a possibility. It also does not take into consideration that Huet coming off the cap was a given. That is what the GM was working with.

I'm not really assuming anything. Niemi was going to walk. There was talk of that for a month on here. stan himself said that he didn't think that he could afford him.

And letting Hammer walk isn't assuming anything. He was actually signed to an offersheet. stan had a choice. He made it. Albeit, more than likely the wrong one.

Rocky has stated many times. He will do what ever it takes to win. So thats not really assuming much.

Losing Ladd and Buff was a HUGE HUGE mistake. And he lost them for nothing. Maybe Morin becomes something maybe he doesn't. But right now. I'd trade Morin for Buff. Buff is a guy that comes around once a decade maybe longer. He's very rare. No knock to Morin. I hope he has a marvelous career. Its just Buff is that good.

Maybe there's a wee bit of assumption in my last part of my post. But Soupy was dealt. And Versteeg was obviously not going to stay in Philly. Holmgren said that at the draft he was trying to deal him.

So I don't think I assumed that much. I guess hindsight is always 20/20. But doesn't a GM have a plan? To me stan flies by the seat of his pants, trying to gain valuable cap space.

And he has no exit plan. He replaces good players with reclamation projects. Less talented, and inferior players.

I think thats very evident!!!

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I was a big fan of Dale Tallon as GM, and yes, I know he left the team with a horrible Cap mess, that he himself would have been stuck with had he not been let go.

I was one of those who was furious though as to how it appeared to me to go down.

So right off the bat I was ok with Scotty around, but anti Stan. But I made myself say "give him a chance". I know he inherited one heck of a salary cap mess, but he also inherited one exciting, talented, young, and quick team. I have to give him props for doing the best he could with the cap/contract issues. But now I think I'm to the end of my "honeymoon phase" and it's now time to watch him for his judgement on draft days, and free agent signings,roster moves,trades etc. I think at least for me he's now past the point where he's had to go get a player and base his decision on those cap issues from the last couple seasons. So long story short, for me at least, I'm now holding him accountable from here on out..........

Yess Dale left Stan with a mess but he alos had some great talent to trade away. I don't feel he got fair value for guys like Versteeg, Ladd, Sopel, Buff, Soup Etc. We don't have any quality players on this team to show for the trades. We have in return Frolich, Stallberg and Olesz, maybe the draft picks and prospects workout and maybe the don't right now I would say we lost big time on all accounts.

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Yess Dale left Stan with a mess but he alos had some great talent to trade away. I don't feel he got fair value for guys like Versteeg, Ladd, Sopel, Buff, Soup Etc. We don't have any quality players on this team to show for the trades. We have in return Frolich, Stallberg and Olesz, maybe the draft picks and prospects workout and maybe the don't right now I would say we lost big time on all accounts.

fixed

Stan was part of Dale's staff. Matter of fact, Stan was in charge of doing the cap numbers for Dale.

Edited by dlrob315
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I'm not really assuming anything. Niemi was going to walk. There was talk of that for a month on here. stan himself said that he didn't think that he could afford him.

And letting Hammer walk isn't assuming anything. He was actually signed to an offersheet. stan had a choice. He made it. Albeit, more than likely the wrong one.

Rocky has stated many times. He will do what ever it takes to win. So thats not really assuming much.

Losing Ladd and Buff was a HUGE HUGE mistake. And he lost them for nothing. Maybe Morin becomes something maybe he doesn't. But right now. I'd trade Morin for Buff. Buff is a guy that comes around once a decade maybe longer. He's very rare. No knock to Morin. I hope he has a marvelous career. Its just Buff is that good.

Maybe there's a wee bit of assumption in my last part of my post. But Soupy was dealt. And Versteeg was obviously not going to stay in Philly. Holmgren said that at the draft he was trying to deal him.

So I don't think I assumed that much. I guess hindsight is always 20/20. But doesn't a GM have a plan? To me stan flies by the seat of his pants, trying to gain valuable cap space.

And he has no exit plan. He replaces good players with reclamation projects. Less talented, and inferior players.

I think thats very evident!!!

Since you are not assuming that means you know everything that was going on behind the scenes (ie. the non public information) in terms of the discussions between the 'Hawks, players, and other teams?

Did you then know what FA's they may have been persuing that may have had a hand in some of the decision making?

Niemi was given an offer by this team which was obviously refused as the team then choose to take him to arbitration. The offer does not necessarily suggest that they were looking for him to walk, just walk if the price was not right.

Also you still have not address Huet in the equation. It was not a given that he was going to come off the cap completely going into last season.

And the cap is a big deal and needs to be managed along with who is on the team. The Hawks needed to be very much planning for the future. Considering what Sharp and and Seabrook were most likely (or what the team would have liked) to be making when resigned, what Buff and Ladd were most likely going to be resigned for, along with cap space for the potential and role players.

That is planning. Really what you have proposed would have given maybe another year of "life" and then the team would have been in the same situation with the cap of letting some quality players go and fill in with cheaper options. Just all a matter of when to take the hit(s) and recoup, which obviously became one year sooner.

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fixed

Stan was part of Dale's staff. Matter of fact, Stan was in charge of doing the cap numbers for Dale.

Dale was still responsible for the deals.

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One fine day me and my good man Rob will pull out the numbers again. We proved that mathematically, the Hawks could a kept Buff and Ladd. By letting Niemi and Hammer go.

I see what your saying. But all I personally am and have been saying, is stan kept the wrong guys, and or had a terrible plan. And I think its safe to say. Now he has the mess cleaned up. But a much weaker team. Its pretty much the same as last year. stan is pretty much a rookie GM. The Hawks have had 4 out of the last 5 GM's be rookies. And its apparent it has hurt the team.

Many knock Mike Smith. But its clear as day. He had some very good picks. Buff, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Burish, Brouwer, Crawford etc. And that comes from experience.

I just wish that the Hawks should of, or hope that they will get a good experienced GM!!!

For the sake of argument lets say all that you say is true and they could've somehow kept the two of them. For how long? One more season? Both were due extensions and big raises so who stays and who goes? Sharp? Seabs? Bolland? Who? Would this team be better with Ladd and Buff and without Sharp and Seabs? Its not as simple as you make it seem.

GM'ing and the management of the cap is not just about the present year but many years to come. This is something you're conveniently leaving out of your equation.

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For the sake of argument lets say all that you say is true and they could've somehow kept the two of them. For how long? One more season? Both were due extensions and big raises so who stays and who goes? Sharp? Seabs? Bolland? Who? Would this team be better with Ladd and Buff and without Sharp and Seabs? Its not as simple as you make it seem.

GM'ing and the management of the cap is not just about the present year but many years to come. This is something you're conveniently leaving out of your equation.

it was better for Ladd and buff to leave the hawks. but if they wouldve stayed, they wouldve remained "depth players" that wouldnt command the same salary they are making in winnipeg.

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Since you are not assuming that means you know everything that was going on behind the scenes (ie. the non public information) in terms of the discussions between the 'Hawks, players, and other teams?

Did you then know what FA's they may have been persuing that may have had a hand in some of the decision making?

Niemi was given an offer by this team which was obviously refused as the team then choose to take him to arbitration. The offer does not necessarily suggest that they were looking for him to walk, just walk if the price was not right.

Also you still have not address Huet in the equation. It was not a given that he was going to come off the cap completely going into last season.

And the cap is a big deal and needs to be managed along with who is on the team. The Hawks needed to be very much planning for the future. Considering what Sharp and and Seabrook were most likely (or what the team would have liked) to be making when resigned, what Buff and Ladd were most likely going to be resigned for, along with cap space for the potential and role players.

That is planning. Really what you have proposed would have given maybe another year of "life" and then the team would have been in the same situation with the cap of letting some quality players go and fill in with cheaper options. Just all a matter of when to take the hit(s) and recoup, which obviously became one year sooner.

Again. I didn't assume anything. Thats the way it happened. Sorry for the truth.

And What I know is. Your beloved stan chose Hammer over Ladd, Buff, Versteeg and anyone else that made that amount. YES he traded most of them before any of the RFA fiasco #2.

Which means he didn't value them. And thought he could replace them. And he was wrong. Very wrong.

I don't know how anyone can STILL stick up for a guy that has done nothing but ruin this team. The Hawks are going in the same exact direction as Tampa and Anaheim!!!

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it was better for Ladd and buff to leave the hawks. but if they wouldve stayed, they wouldve remained "depth players" that wouldnt command the same salary they are making in winnipeg.

Thats pure speculation because they most likely wouldn't have been depth players anymore (not sure that they were to begin with)because you would've still needed to trade others away to keep them. They They both would've been very critical to the team. They also both had one more year on there deals and would've expected raises.

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Again. I didn't assume anything. Thats the way it happened. Sorry for the truth.

And What I know is. Your beloved stan chose Hammer over Ladd, Buff, Versteeg and anyone else that made that amount. YES he traded most of them before any of the RFA fiasco #2.

Which means he didn't value them. And thought he could replace them. And he was wrong. Very wrong.

I don't know how anyone can STILL stick up for a guy that has done nothing but ruin this team. The Hawks are going in the same exact direction as Tampa and Anaheim!!!

It goes back to the beginning premise of my side of the debate which has nothing to do with "my beloved" Stan (of which you assume that is my belief, but is not the truth). My premise is that while what you proposed was possible, I am debating that it was not very probable.

If you are not assuming then you are agreeing that you knew everything that went on behind the scenes. You then know with certainty that they were not considering future deals of Sharp, and Seabrook in the post season after the Cup. Or that if Ladd and Buff is they were retained that they would for certain have the same cap hit or less when resigned; or that they were not even talking to them about the possibilities. That they knew for certain that Huet would have no more cap hit. That they knew for certain that they could get talent to fill in the gaps that would perfectly fit the team and the cap. And so on. Hard to have much in the total fact of the matter when there are many unknowns.

Again I do not disagree with the possibility, but disagree with the high probability of what you proposed because it does take into account assumptions and unknown certainty.

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it was better for Ladd and buff to leave the hawks. but if they wouldve stayed, they wouldve remained "depth players" that wouldnt command the same salary they are making in winnipeg.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS

Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Sharp ($5.900m)

Marian Hossa ($5.275m) / Dustin Byfuglien ($5.200m) / Andrew Ladd ($4.400m)

Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Andrew Burnette ($2.000m) / Viktor Stalberg ($0.875m)

Ben Smith ($0.812m) / Jamal Mayers ($0.550m) / Bryan Bickell ($0.541m)

John Scott ($0.512m) / Marcus Kruger ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brent Seabrook ($5.800m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Nick Leddy ($1.116m) / Steve Montador ($2.750m)

Sean O'Donnell ($0.850m) / Sami Lepisto ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS

Corey Crawford ($2.666m) / Ray Emery ($0.600m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,012,962; BONUSES: $325,000

CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,287,038

Squishy I added Buff and Ladd with their raises they received this year using this year's Salary Cap and still had $1.287m left over. I eliminated Hammer and still kept Brunette although not needed and you can also move Buff to defense if you want and eliminate Montador, there are so many options..... Although I am going with a 22 man roster instead of 23 like this year but as we know now that 23 man roster don't mean a hill of beans if the guys in the pressbox do not bring any value.

Edit: If you drop Brunette & Smith off the above roster and put Brouwer in it will give you a 21 man roster with $1.7m in cap space.

Edited by dlrob315
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Many knock Mike Smith. But its clear as day. He had some very good picks. Buff, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Burish, Brouwer, Crawford etc. And that comes from experience.

Not to mention Ruutu.... who produced Ladd, and Anton Babchuk and Craig Andersson, both given away by Dale Tallon. Smith's record at the draft table was strong, not only here but in Winnipeg and Toronto as well.

Another thing people don't seem to get about the Smith era - the team was allowed to tank deliberately.

Smith was hired to do a massive rebuild on an old and tired team with few real assets. The lockout was coming, and Bill Wirtz/Pulford were anticipating that salaries would drop.

As part of the plan, the team allowed all its own free agents to leave and wouldn't offer any long term contracts. Bribes were offered (i.e. the notorious Gilmour/Dumont trade/ the McCabe trade) to entice other teams to take the remaining bad contracts.

Smith took the fall for some questionable decisions, but his long term plan no doubt was highly successful.

Following the lockout: Tallon had more draft picks and prospects at his disposal than any team in the league. He also had more cap room to play with than anyone else.

It is not Smith's fault that Tallon blew virtually the entire wad in one year on six overpriced UFAs. Then a few years later, he made the same mistakes all over again, only this time, the Smith picks were just starting to emerge.

Tallon got the credit for the team's eventual triumphs, but Smith and Pulford did all the dirty work and took all the heat for it.

]

Now the Bowmans are on the hot seat, cleaning up the mess left behind by Tallon.

Edited by mvr
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Great post MVR. Tallon did his share too. Like getting Sharpie for a song. Getting Versteeg for the underachieving Brandon Bochenski. Not to mention Bolland, trading for Ladd. Signing Soupy(although a wee bit overpaid, he still helped the Hawks win the Cup), Hossa. He made a great trade in getting Havlat.

I personally think that Dale knew the axe was coming and spent recklessly. Just watch the presser of Dale when he let Savard go. He pretty much said he knew it was coming. So he went for it at all costs.

Now. All stan has to do is maintain and add to this team. But he's ruining it trying to be Ken Holland. He's made way more subtraction then addition. And stans talent evaluation is horrible at best.

Anyone who CHOOSES to kepp Hammer over Ladd or even Buff. Should really make sure they have the right career!!!

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