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rinkrat21

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rinkrat21 last won the day on August 24

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  1. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    Keeping Buff would have been a mistake and the Hawks wouldnt have wont their next 2 SC's if he was on the team???? πŸ˜‚ And he did keep Bolland, at least thru the 2013 SC, so a different team didnt win it then as you claim would have happened if Bolland was on the team. And he brought back Versteeg for the 2015 SC so a different team didnt win it then either as you claim if he was on the team. Oy vey πŸ™„ And yes, father time catches up, especially in the cap era. But for the 20th time, the drop off didnt have to be this bad or for this long- see the Pens and Bruins πŸ™„ And please do the research yourself and dont make me go back to the early draft classes to point out all the examples of good players that were taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of those drafts. The information is out there so your assumption that SB only drafted poorly because there were no good players left after the first 12 picks is incorrect πŸ™„ And before you even say it, I'll do it for you - yes, SB was not the only GM to miss out on a lot of those players. The difference is, most of those GM's have since been fired while our guy keeps on trucking along..... And after 3 years with no playoff wins already under the team's belt, it makes sense to you that starting NOW its going to take a few MORE years to judge the results of the talent in the pipeline??? Where was the talent the last couple of years when the team needed it?? Practically non-existent. Oh boy.......πŸ™„πŸ™„πŸ™„πŸ™„πŸ™„
  2. rinkrat21

    Stan As Gm

    Fair enough and good point. I understand what you are saying. After watching how the Knights - Sharks first rounder went last year, I dont think anyone in Vegas was faulting anyone behind the bench or in the front office. If the Hawks lose in the first round but take it to 6 or 7 games and could have won it if the bounces were going their way or there were no bad breaks going against them, that would be a legit step up from recent years πŸ‘. But if they get bounced again in 4 or 5, bleh.
  3. rinkrat21

    Stan As Gm

    We have no choice but to give him one more chance lol. You think just getting into the playoffs is enough? You dont think winning at least one series is what needs to happen? As I stated in another thread, just qualifying only to get booted again in the first round will make twice that has happened in the last 4 years, to go along with 2 years of not qualifying at all. The results over that 4 year span is acceptable in your opinion to maintaining the current course instead of bringing in some fresh blood?
  4. rinkrat21

    Stan As Gm

    Or Stan Bowman? Nah, the people on this board want a good GM for a change
  5. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    For me personally, not true. Again - I DONT CARE WHAT HE CONTRIBUTED OR DIDNT CONTRIBUTE TO THOSE TEAMS. Why I am a non-supporter is because even during the Cup run when he was doing a good job of supplementing the top end of the roster with the proper support guys, (see how easy it is for me to acknowledge that), he was still in the process of doing dumb things that led to the current demise of the team. Early on it was choosing the wrong players to keep versus let go to get under the cap, making bad trades to get rid of the players he chose to get rid of, and drafting poorly. And those things started the first off season after the first Cup win. The ONLY time his contributions to the Cup teams matter to me in regards to my issues with him is when someone wants to use them as a defense of him and say he deserves a pass for the current demise because of those former contributions. That is where I will disagree. Yes, I acknowledge his contributions all day long to the Cup teams. But IMO they dont excuse the numerous other bad moves he has been making for a decade that have slowly led the team to where they are today. The only reason us non-supporters will discredit those moves is because at the same time he was making them, he was doing absolutely stupid stuff as well. So yeah, when ya look at it as a WHOLE, not just the 5 guys he brought in to the Cup teams, but his work as a WHOLE, it isnt very difficult to say "yeah he contributed, but based on his overall body or work, I would bet a lot of others could have contributed as well". That of course may not be true, and of course there is no way to prove it, but just trying to explain why that thought process even gets thrown out there - because his body of work as a WHOLE has been mediocre at best, even during the Cup run. The idea the guy should get fired isnt unique to the non-supporters on this board. And I've said this before, you can do a search on Google and find "Fire Stan" articles as far back as 2011, continuing all the way up to when Q got fired. Taking into consideration his contributions to the SC's, if so many other hockey fans, columnists, and pundits feel the same, why do you think that is? My guess would be exactly the reason I say it - because in spite of his contributions to the SC teams, his overall body of work which includes some blatantly obvious bad moves, overshadows those SC contributions. So yeah, I am acknowledging his contributions to the Cup teams, but still say he hasnt been very good at his job overall, including this past off season. Was he very active? Yes Was all that activity done the best possible way. IMO no. And so it continues.....
  6. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    You seem obsessed with making sure SB gets credit for whatever. Are you sure you arent related to him? πŸ˜‚ As I said to Puck, I dont care who gets credit for what in the past. The only reason his level of credit gets talked about is because when the current state of the team is brought up, which you agree is dismal, and people say SB should get fired, the supporters like yourself want to live in the past and defend SB with the work he did supplementing the "supercore" as you called it. And then the deabte starts about how much credit he should get. As I already said, its a point that will always be debated and never agreed upon so let's drop it already. The team isnt in a good place right now, hasnt been for a few years, and it took years of bad work to get it here. That is the point. And in trying to keep this discussion relevant to the thread, lets talk about some of SB's handy work this past offseason which has some of you so excited. In a nutshell, which group of players would you rather have: A) On defense - Joker and Chariot, and at forward, Kahun and Ferland or B ) on defense - deHaan and Mattaa and at forward Nylander ? The salary cap difference to these groups is $650k, so pretty close. IMO, I would take group A, which not only do I feel is the better overall group of players, but is $650k cheaper than group B. Now instead of trying to turn Caggulia into a 1st liner which he is clearly not, you can have someone like Ferland on the top line. He is Caggulia on steroids - bigger, meaner, and more talented. Toews-Kane-Ferland / Strome-Dcat-Shaw. That is a nice blend of skill and grit on the top 2 lines, no? Kahun, Saad, on the 3rd line with Kampf, and a traditional 4th line of Caggulia-Smith-Carpenter. If you dont need or want as much grit on the 4th line, maybe its Kubalik-Smith-Perlini (if he signs). On D, Chariot takes deHaan's spot. And Joker takes Mattaa's. Was SB so smart for trying to jump the free agency gun and trade for deHaan and Mattaa before July 1st?? Or could he have sat back, signed Chariot for 3.5mil, who is probably in the exact same category as deHaan, taken a chance on Joker for 3mil a year less than taking a chance on Mattaa, and had extra money to sign someone like Ferland? Sure the Hawks dont have Saarela then, but they would have been able to keep Kahun. This is just my take on things. Im sure there were a lot of ways he could have gone if he waited until July 1st. But IMO and in hindsight, his decision to try and fix the D before free agency even started with those trades has all the makings of not doing something the right way yet again.
  7. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    Agreed!!! And that is why I have also called out the entire FO as well, not just SB!!!! CLEAN HOUSE!!!!! 😁
  8. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    Yes it WAS the debate Puck, but I gave a reason why it WAS the debate - because defenders want to point to his contributions to those teams when he is called out for all the numerous bad moves he has made and the current state of the team. Not because I really dwell on who contributed what. SB was indeed the GM during those Cup wins. But he indeed did inherit a loaded team and his contributions will always be debated and never agreed upon. Agree to disagree on that is correct. But we dont agree on the playoffs this season being a must. You feel simply getting in is enough. IMO I feel without winning at least one series, that would equate to barely mediocre over the last 4 seasons and not good enough for SB to keep his job. For as good of a coach as we all thought Q was, he was shown the door after only 2 seasons without winning a playoff series and a slow start to a 3rd season. If this team cant win a playoff series over the course of the last 4 seasons, with the team not even qualifying in 2 of them, simply getting in only to get bounced again in the 1st round doesnt even come close to job security for SB IMO. Hoping for a successful season (at least one playoff series win), but even if the season is a failure (missing the playoffs again), I have an unfortunate feeling he will keep his job anyway. Would be shocked if he didnt.
  9. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    I really dont care. Again, the only reason I cared for that debate in the first place was because thats what you supporters point too in defense of SB while he has looked incompetent the last few seasons. I still contend his contributions were not at the level of importance as you defenders feel, but we are never gonna agree so no point. Agree to disagree. It's in the PAST and and his level of contributions to those teams is irrelevant to whats happening currently.
  10. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    IMO - a #1 center, 4 top 6 wingers, a #1, #2, and #3 dman, and a starting goalie capable of winning a SC is a FAR MORE difficult cast of characters to accumulate at the same time, and a FAR MORE important group of players needed for winning a SC than the group of players you listed. And because I feel that way, the credit I give SB for those wins is never gonna be to the same extent as your's. Agree to disagree and we can leave it there. If the Hawks somehow pull a miracle and win the SC this year, I will eat a crap ton of crow and give SB props for putting together his own SC team and doing so with such a quick turnaround from the last 3 seasons. That would probably be one of the most impressive things I will have seen from any GM ever and Stan will get the deserved props from me 100% FOR SURE. Quick question for you - how would you view Stan if the team fails to win a playoff series for the 4th season in a row? Or even worse, doesnt qualify for the playoffs for a 3rd season in a row? Because that is my focus WAY more than who contributed how much to something that happened 4-6 years ago. And i've made reference to the current in some of my recent posts but you have conveniently ignored those thoughts and are solely hung up on debating how much SB contributed to the SC's. At this point, who cares. We are never gonna agree so im dropping it. But currently, some of us have been predicting this was gonna happen for a long time. Complaining about SB's moves for a long time, even during the SC era. And now here we are, a bottom third of the league team. In such a short amount of time from being a mini-dynasty. Horrible. Frankly, even if SB was 100% responsible for the SC wins, what has happened the last 3 years immediately following those Cup wins is grounds for termination IMO. Same way things went down in LA. The Cups were great, but what have you done for me lately?
  11. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    Meh, this is all irrelevant and as usual, we can go round and round in circles forever lol. Frankly, I could care less how much he did or did not contribute to the Cups. They happened, we celebrated, and it was great. SB obviously contributed to them so good for him. Arguing about how much or how little he contributed, or if someone else could or could not have done the same job is pointless. The point I prefer to focus on is why the hell does he still have a job lol. Because as we can all look back and see, even during the time he was providing players for SC wins, he was also making moves which have led to the team to this point recently. It isnt just because of the success and the cap, its because of his moves as well. And as we saw in LA, their guy got fired for pulling the same crap - helping to build those SC teams, but being so reckless in other areas, that the team imploded and became one of the worst in the league.
  12. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    Nobody is trying to disprove a fact. The obvious fact is, SB was the GM when the Hawks won their 3 SC's, yada yada yada. The dispute happens when those 3 SC wins are used to define how good of a GM he is. And you seem to hang your hat onto how good of a GM he is based on his contributions to those SC wins, that is why "invalid evidence" is used to disprove your argument. The same way you use "invalid evidence" to disprove my argument that is he is not a very good GM. If SB was the only GM on the planet who could have provided that supporting cast, then hell yeah, he is a genius. But in "theory", if there are others who could have done the same thing, then maybe SB is just average at his job. And how good of a GM he is is certainly is NOT a fact, its very debatable. "Invalid evidence" is only being used to discuss this difference of opinion, not to debate whether or not he actually held the job during the Cup wins. The debate is the value of his contribution and quality of his work.
  13. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    It is the hardest trophy in all of sports to win. 100% agreed. Now keep that in the forefront of your mind and ask yourself if guys like Handzus, Vermette, Richards, Oduya and Rosival are the types of high end players needed to carry a team and win 2 SC's in a span of 3 years. Is that the core group of players a team builds around to win SC's? Or are they merely a supporting cast to the studs needed to win the hardest trophy in all of sports. And arent supporting cast players fairly interchangeable. Sure there is no 100% proof that the hardest trophy in sports would have still been won with a different average GM and different supporting cast players. Cant prove it because it didnt happen. But in theory, if that is your main argument in defending SB, that ONLY he could have provided a supporting cast to that top end, that is also only an opinion as well which cant be prove and it seems like a reach IMO.
  14. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    C'mon. The Pens havent miss the playoffs since the time they won the SC back in 2009, and even book ended their run with back to back's in 16' and 17'. How in the hell is that considered a crash and burn????? A crash and burn is what is happening with the Hawks and your beloved GM. Since winning their last SC, the 3 years immediately following have been a first round sweep, followed by 2 straight season of not qualifying at all. That is a crash and burn, not being in the playoffs for 10 straight years and winning 3 Cups during that time as the Pens have πŸ™„ As far as the Kings, I will 100% agree with you that was a crash and burn. But their GM got fired for it. Why hasnt SB been fired for an eerily similar path the Kings have taken?
  15. rinkrat21

    Hawks Moves 2019-2020

    It depends on how the core played during that time period. It's no secret that the top end talent, which we all agree carries, a team still needs the supporting cast around them to be successful. Could the team have won with a different GM and a different supporting cast besides Handzus, Vermette, Richards, and Oduya? Sure, why not. Those guys arent the studs that carry the team. But could those 4 guys have won a SC without Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Hammer, etc. HELL NO lol. As much as you may not seem to think so, the top end was so loaded, a different GM with a different supporting cast of players could very well have helped deliver 2 more SC's, and as some have alluded too, maybe even a 3rd. But no way in hell is SB winning a SC without the top end he inherited. Im not sure why this is so hard to comprehend.
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